Portland protests Aug. 17: What you need to know

We will never be able to have any constructive dialogue with most of these people, because such propaganda will always be accepted as fact.

Here is their mentality. This is how they reason:
------- (1) BELIEF: Non-college-educated white males., the kind you see at Proud Boys gatherings, are unlikely to have Politically Correct opinions.
-------------ASSESSMENT: True. They know who commits violent crime way out of proportion to their numbers and they do not believe that racism and not enough welfare has much to do with it. They like women who are feminine. They are reflexive patriots. They may be uncomfortable with gay men, especially if they are in your face about it. They probably wouldn't be comfortable with a Black Lesbian boss. They don't like being lectured on political correctness by some little weenie from Harvard who's going to go off and earn five or ten times their salary in a comfortable job. They enjoy all the macho male physicalness bonding things, talking about football, deer hunting, their military experience if they have any, areas where men of that social layer have expertise, like guns or job-related things. (Get two gun nuts together and let them start arguing about gas piston vs blowback or 9mm vs .45 cal etc ... you need a Master's degree just to understand the conversation. Two electricians the same, etc..

----------(2) BELIEF: NeoNazis and Klansmen share every one of these beliefs, attitudes, appearances and behaviors.
---------------ASSESSMENT: True. An outside observer, watching these two groups (PBs and Nazis) at relaxation, would not be able to distinguish between them.

If a group of 'Proud Boys' and a group of neoNazi Klansmen, all in 'civies' and none of them talking explicit politics, were to mingle in a beer joint outside a small town, they would get along just fine socially.

If an outing from the Harvard School of Social Work, or some students on a field trip from a Social Anthropology course, were to walk into that beer joint, they wouldn't get on well with either group - - and that is BEFORE, in all cases, anything has been said about politics. It's a social class/level and kind of education thing. [Not necessarily level of intelligence or knowledge.] If any of the group that just walked in were pretty girls, or just girls, they would soon find themselves the focus of attention from the Proud Boys and Klansmen, and might feel uncomfortable with the mating-maneuvre conventions of the social layer those men come from. The young men in their group wouldn't find much in common with the Proud Boys/Klansmen either -- mutually interesting conversation would be limited. Two different worlds would be clashing.

On women, the PB/Klansmen would have 'traditional' views. Life has moved on, men from this social layer have now had many years of seeing strong female images, the idea of fairness and equality are deeply ingrained in American culture anyway. Women from their own social group have also been affected by the movement for women's equality -- they are less likely to put up with behavior that their grandmothers had to endure. (A recent funny YouTube video from a convenience store security camera shows a young woman employee bending over a counter, a man walks behind her and pinches her bottom, she turns around and wrestles him to the ground. Hilarious! And deeply satisfying as well. The times they are a-changin', as Bob Dylan sung.)

On race and borders, the PB/Klansmen would probably share the same basic subconscious reflexes. Our Leftist Sea-Green Incorruptibles don't understand that all over the world, ordinary people feel more comfortable with their own. If their tribal group has been in the majority, they are not happy if that position seems to be changing. This is true of every race, tribe, religious group, or clan you can find. It's a deep reflex. Part of the transformation of the human race over the last few hundred years has been to take clans and tribes and squash them together into 'nations', with varying degrees of success.

------- (3) BELIEF: The truth of (2) implies that there is no essential difference between Proud Boys (who are here just a proxy for ordinary white Americans of the lower half of the SES). Similarlity of attitudes and language and dress styles imply identity of conscious poltical beliefs -- or rather, it implies agreement with NeoNazi/white supremacy, which we could say is the most concentrated and refined and elaborated expression of those beliefs. From a general discomfort in being around a group of another race, and some pride in your own ... MUST automatically flow the desire to exterminate or enslave all other races. If you are a bit uncomfortable in the presence of that clever Jewish graduate student from Harvard, it follows that you want to push him into a gas chamber.
------ ASSESSMENT: False. A does not imply B.

OBSERVATION: Since in America, as in the whole civilized world, exterminatory ideologies, like fascism, are universally abhorred, it is very convenient to be able to attach that label to an opponent. Some people do it light-mindedly, others are more cynical.

As the Proud Boys emerged into the daylight of publicity, they, or their leaders, learned that their backward social attitudes did not win them any friends, and that any association, real or imagined or accidental, with fascists was poison. So they began to say all the right things, to highlight their non-white members, to avoid casual or accidental connections with people who share a lot of reflexive attitudes with them. How deep and sincere this is I don't know. If it's partly a mask, perhaps the mask will grow into the face, as often happens.

When a photograph was found of Obama in friendly conversation with the outright Jew-hater Louis Farrakhan, the mainstream media suppressed it. Why, some dishonest demagogue might make something of this casual, accidental association. And that would not be fair, since Obama was certainly not an anti-white anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.

No such consideration will be applied to the like occureances on our side. Most of our enemies have neither honor nor conscience. At best they have limited reasoning powers, and perhaps at some deep level really do believe that we are all white supremacists. (One Lefty on this forum, arguing against a conservative, called the El Paso mass murderer "Your Boy". Beneath contempt. Even below the level of things that are beneath contempt.)

So ... the people who casually throw around the terms 'neo Nazi' and 'white supremacist' are either criminally lightminded, or conscious liars.

We shouldn't waste our time with them. Argue with honest Leftists, by all means, but, as someone said long ago, [referring to disputing with a literal Nazi], it is a waste of breath for men to have arguments with beasts.

 

ANCIENT History.

 

Of course he isn't. He could try to ACT as if he were, and do what I said, but it would be just that, an act.

 

So what "Idea" are you actually trying to get across (with this latest display of RW Meme Spam)?

 

This was a RW rally.

13 arrested, 6 injured at Portland right wing rally: Police

The city has been bracing for several militant right-wing groups to arrive in the city, along with scores of counter-protesters.

Enrique Tarrio, national head of the Proud Boys, who describe themselves as an all-male "western chauvinist" group, and former InfoWars personality Joe Biggs, organized the “End Domestic Terrorism” rally on Saturday that started at 11 a.m. local time. Initially, the crowds moved in slowly, and were met by a heavy police presence, in which local police were bolstered by more than a dozen other law enforcement agencies.

A militant rally. Meaning, violence is wanted.

 

"------- (3) BELIEF: The truth of (2) implies that there is no essential difference between Proud Boys (who are here just a proxy for ordinary white Americans of the lower half of the SES)."

You wrote a damn book, but had to insert an acronym. There are 164 possibilities for "SES".

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/SES

 

Wha... why in the ever living **** would anybody wear something like that??? Don’t get me wrong, it’s a free country, do whatever the hell you want, but ****... is this really what the left champions??? Hahaha... I don’t know what else to say.

 

Up is down with these people.

Its a clown show.

 

Nah.

That's TRUMP.

 

Was it over your head?

 

You didn't answer my question.

I will wait for a more detailed response.

 

Reads like typical right-wing BS.
All US extremist killings in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism
https://www.businessinsider.com/extremist-killings-links-right-wing-extrem...
Right-Wingers Are America’s Deadliest Terrorists
After this weekend, right-wing terrorists have killed more people on U.S. soil than jihadis have since 9/11. So why is the government’s focus still on Islamic radicalism?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ernment-focus-jihadis-islamic-radicalism.html

BTW....Islamic radicals are also part of right-wing terrorists.

 

Another poster called them 'extreme' and I pointed out that they did nothing, extreme or otherwise, Some are in the habit of calling both sides of an argument 'extreme' when there is often really only one. A post like 504, same poster in fact, was what I was referring to. My attempt at irony clearly failed. ))

 

Communists getting what they want-more government.

 

There was no violence by this group and no evidence it was 'wanted'.

 

Which race are they attacking? Not Asian I hope.

In fact there is more racial diversity in the Proud Boys than among the White liberal Antifa delinquents..

 

militant groups. Wanting violence is a given.

 

No, it continues among liberals today.

 

No, it is not. There are many militant groups around the world whose only interest is defense and, after what happened to Andy Ngo, that was the case here.

 

Some people are slow learners.

 

Wrong.

Still, got any examples?

 

Except these Antifa clowns use bear spray and chunks of concrete rather than seltzer water. Real clowns have more sense.

 

Sure.

 

Some WWE Skit with Hired ACTORS...

Proves NOTHING...

 

Very slow.