Russian Tanks Cross Border Into Ukraine

4 Yoo guys I would suggest a goodstiff Anti Psychotic
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^ Necessary treatment after looking at one of your posts.

 

- GOOD B+ effort !
Well at least YOU aren't a BROKEN RECORD like YOUR Parrot RU Vader ?
& nice to see YOU admit to YOUR BALANCE problem - But as I indicated in my
Persecution YOUR problem is between the ears NOT in them as YOUR Illustrations
................................................................................................................ would suggest

& YOU
would do well to learn to use a more appropriate SIZE - Keeps the MODs Happy.
................................................................................... Would YOU like to take Lessons ?


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I just wonder what colors you see when you hear a foreign language. Since they sound different than English, I imagine they must also form unique visual patterns for you.

-> Wie sieht das hier aus, wenn du es liest?
(What does this look like when you read it?)

Show me

 

What is happening in Ukraine have played out for decades in many different countries all over the world between America and the Soviets, using go between countries to destabilise a region...for own purposes. The problem here is that Putin have played this game so many times he could probably do it blindfolded...which means he will change the game...it's not going to play out the way America & its Nato puppet in Europe expect. I fear this is going to backfire terribly.

 

That's Putin's game. Destabilize a former Soviet satellite, then invade it in order to 'help' people (and steal some bit of desired territory in the process), using the West and NATO as an excuse all the while.

 

Putin is destabilizing Ukraine.

Like a small child, made a mess and someone else is to blame.

 

Come on... you going to sit there and pretend America have never done this...they are doing exactly this in Ukraine right now, not to mention all throughout Africa, South America, South East Asia and even Taiwan is used as a chess piece. We have millions of AK47's, bazookas and landmines compliments the KGB and CIA haunting these places...and still everyone turns a blind eye....oooh the Russian aggression while stacking Nato troops and weapons in Ukraine It's going to cost them and us more than they can imagine...

 

I'm concerned with the present, not what may or may not have happened long ago.

 

and yet...the present is merely a repeat of the past.... until the game is changed and not to your liking

 

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This is interesting... a Putin quote in today's NY Times news article [which gives link to a Russian article.]

"They may think that we are like them, but we are different, with a different genetic, cultural and moral code,” Mr. Putin said last month, excoriating the United States. “We know how to defend our interests.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/world/europe/putin-biden-ukraine-navalny.html

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This reminds me of something similar Putin said in his speech at a rally in 2012:

We are a victorious people – it's in our genes, in our genetic code, passed down from generation to generation.


Putin addresses tens of thousands at Moscow rally

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/23/putin-addresses-thousands-moscow-rally

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At least you stopped comparing the US and Russia fleets, carriers, destroyers, total tonnage and so on in regard of Ukraine.

As for holding the territories in Ukraine, Russia hasn't had any problems with holding Crimea and the part of Donbass, even though the latter is controlled through proxies, there are no Russian army, security services, police, any authority bodies etc. All of that is in Crimea, but in both cases there are no any problems with holding these territories. Crimea is about 2,3 mln people, Donetsk and Lugansk republics is about 2 mln. Moreover, both in Crimea and in Donbass the most servicemen in the local enforcement bodies are local residents.

The problem of holding the Ukrainian territories is not a military problem, it's 100% economic challenge.

 

I mentioned fleets, tonnages and aircraft numbers comments were being made about how 'easily' Russia could win any full scale, conventional war with the US (no boundaries no limiting conditions specified). Those numbers put the issue in perspective and actually reveal how hard, if not impossible it would be for Russia to win such a war. As I said, regardless of which side gained the most ground neither side could afford to hold it for long enough to make the effort worth it.

My previous post however relates to options available to the US and NATO against Russia in a war limited to Ukraine. And as I stated, given the time constraints re; mobilization etc probably the only short term option likely to be effective was the air support plus the rearming of Ukrainian forces option. Short term. Depending on how well that scenario plays out other options become available but that depends on the how well the Ukrainians do with the additional support. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes for both sides - but that's war for you.

As far as Donbass etc goes given the extent to which local 'rebels' were supported by Russia with heavy weapons, advanced armaments and critical reconnaissance and intelligence assets etc its not surprising they could hold. And that situation won't change unless the Western Allies are given some reason to heavily modernize/reequip Ukraine. So far they have declined to do this because that would destabilize the political situation not improve it.

Note however this is exactly the kind of support (with the important addition of air power) that NATO could supply to Ukrainian forces quickly in the event of an invasion. Which is why I find it odd that some commentators argue it 'wouldn't work' for Ukrainian forces when it obviously did for the pro-Russians factions. If Russia could do it so can America and its allies.

And yes the problem is economics, neither side benefits from a prolonged war or attempted occupation of Ukraine. Long term it would be a logistical and financial nightmare for both sides, if more so for Russia given the relative size of the economies involved.

So conclusion 1 - even if it succeeded (which is arguable) Russia could not afford to occupy most of Ukraine in the long term and thus would not 'win' such a war.
Conclusion 2 - The US could not afford and does not want a prolonged war in Ukraine. It also would not 'win' i.e. gain anything worth the cost even if it did end up reoccupying most of the country.
Conclusion 3 - Ukraine is unlikely to recover lost territory for the foreseeable future but neither are the rebels likely to gain more (and no, a few hundred meters backwards or forwards along the confrontation line doesn't count).
Conclusion 4 - a negotiated settlement is the only viable, long term solution.
Conclusion 5 - No-one on either side will like the outcome, as is always the case.

So the issue will fester for some time until economic conditions on both sides of the border improve and local Ukrainians and Russians have more to lose from fighting each other than they have to gain from it. (Just like America and Russia.)

 

Ignore history at your own peril.

The US has been screwing with Russia since WWII.

 

@Eadora reminds me of

So those 14000+ dead....tortures,rapes, rationed water,electricity,lost generation in the DPR that Ukies dont control.....thats US fault too?)?

 

Pfffft. We allied with them then, and we let them be Commie bastards after. In return, they made a giant prison camp of a good chunk of Germany and all of Eastern Europe.

 

And we were never appreciated for the lend lease during ww2.

 

I saw this story talking about Belarus possibly joining Russia very soon. Does anybody think this is a possibility? Or is this just a bunch of BS? It's the first I've heard of it. I have no idea if "intellinews" is a reliable source or not.

https://intellinews.com/will-belarus-merge-with-russia-this-week-208393/

 

Yes, I've read about the possibly renewed friendship agreements between Belarus and Russia. It only makes sense given the widespread "color revolutions" brought by the US.

 

This would be Putin's fear mongering pretext for annexing Belarus, same as in Ukraine. No doubt he would love to score an entire country in one go and manage it without any fighting, but we'll see how that goes. The fake assassination plot is another very convenient excuse that came an a very opportune time, of course.

 

According to the article I linked, Lukashenko could be making the annoncement this week. I think that the idea the announcement is about joining Russia is speculation though. I guess we'll find out soon, lol.

 

Lukashenko meets with Putin tomorrow. Russia and Belarus are already both members of the CSTO and the Eurasian Economic Union. The countries refer to themselves as fraternal brother countries. It wouldn't surprise me to see them further confederate, especially after last week's assassination plot against Lukashenko. Guess we'll know soon enough. Belarus has tried to play the part of honest broker between Ukraine and Russia (Minsk agreement), so I don't think there will be anything like fully re-joining with Russia.

 

It's not smart for someone to say they could care less about history, when their animosity and prejudices towards Russia stems from their own historical memories that have been embedded in their DNA.

I recall how Pope John Paul II would pray for the cleansing of people's memories, since it's those very memories that forms or can warp one's reasoning.

In his speech Putin didn't come out with anything shocking as was expected, but in Minsk security forces were being brought into the city near the Ministry of Internal Affairs, as well as in certain neighborhoods even though no protests have been scheduled. While in Ukraine Zalensky gave the order for full mobilization.

This is what Putin said in reference to the attempted assassination of Lukashenko, and rightly so, since he himself has escaped numerous assassination attempts. He does blame the US, since that's where the orders come from.

One can have any point of view regarding the policies of Yukonovich, Maduro or Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko. But the practice of organizing coups and attempts to assassinate heads of state is just too much. All boundaries have been crossed,"

It is worth pointing to the confessions of the detained participants in the conspiracy that a blockade of Minsk was being prepared, including its city infrastructure and communications, the complete shutdown of the entire power grid of the Belarusian capital. This, incidentally means preparations for a massive cyberattack. And this isn't something that can be done with a single switch,"

Apparently, it's not for no reason that our Western colleagues have stubbornly rejected numerous proposals by the Russian side to establish an international dialogue in the field of information and cybersecurity.

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Batjka Lukashenka would have to be permanently removed.....he's basically playing the Kremlin midget for "loans" , support,etc, while resisting this integration thing.