Capitalism is economic tyranny Socialism is economic democracy.

I think this mistake you're making here is why socialism always fails. You are in denial that people are greedy. This is a function of survival and always has been. The more material you have the easier it is for you and your offspring to survive this is true across all animal species. To deny this or do you think humans are somehow not animals like every other animal is to absolutely deny reality.

that is a problem made worse than socialism that's why the ones that don't fall in genocide fall in famine. There are rich people in the socialism it's just that the separation between them and The peasants is so much greater. And there never will be movement from one to the other.

human beings are animals so to say we aren't like the thing that we are is complete denial. Just because we're higher functioning and have concepts like rights and entitlements and stuff like that doesn't mean we aren't animals

that only exists because the material you need to survive is plentiful. If there's a disruption in the supply chain that makes food or water is scarce people will cut your throat for it.

here's another issue with communism/socialism. There's this arbitrary idea that people deserve things and you don't. Take a tour through children's hospital and tell me does his babies deserves to die of cancer. Deserve is an entitlement concept. You deserve nothing you're just lucky enough to have it. And then the other problem is communism is it's just the basic survival. You only have what you need and you don't really have an idea on what you need cuz the only things you need is water shelter and food things just to stave off death that's need. And socialism communism can't even get that right. You capitalism or sort of kind of capitalist ish type areas even the poor have way too much food and shelter.

The poor people in the US are obese the poor people in Venezuela are starving to death.

well there's no such thing as dessert that's a self-centered entitlement viewpoint.

And having more than you need is called luxury and it's after these luxuries came into being that we as a society advanced enough to come up with things like rights. And it's as we had more and more things that supported this life where you didn't have to think about surviving we got to think about whether or not we should have slaves or whether or not those people from that tribe are evil. It was capitalism that gave it to us communism/socialism is just trying not to die.

there is no such thing as dessert that is entitlement. The people who are far more privileged than anyone else in this world are the ones that live.

Again go to a children's hospital and find a cancer patient that's 2 years old you are privileged today or not. And you're using your privilege to make sure that they don't get any should they beat the odds and survive cancer. Because modern medicine is one of those things that people created when they had time to think about anything other than just surviving.

there's no depriving people of what they would otherwise have when you start out in this world you have nothing. The only things you'll get are what your parents are willing and able to give you. So nobody would otherwise have anything and this is another problem with the concept of communism/socialism. It's like you think life is a video game and you start out with a chest full of goods. You do not you start out with nothing.

it seems like what you're calling privilege is the people you're jealous of. You think you deserve more because they have more than you that's jealousy that's not privilege. You are trying to justify one of the worst human traits that we possess and this is probably why so many socialist regimes end in genocide.

Also welfare can exist and functions exponentially better in a more capitalistic society than it does in a socialist society. Because it does take from the rich and give to the poor what socialism does it take from everyone the elites siphon off what they want in give the scraps to everyone if there are any scraps left this is why socialism / communism also ends in gamine

 

You want facts? Take a look at the final days of the socialist Soviet Union. People were starving. The farmers worked the land for wages set by the state whether they produced a lot or a little. They drank a lot and people kept starving. The government was desperate so they gave 5% of the land to the farmers to use as they saw fit. That 5% soon outproduced the other 95% as farmers were able to sell their crops for their own profit.

No one wants to work for a wage set by the government. They want to be able to work better and get ahead. They want to be paid for their EFFORTS and MOTIVATION, not just a wage that remains constant no matter how much they want to earn MORE.

You must be very young with little experience in the workplace. Well, I'm older. I have been rewarded with raises, stock options and more fore going the extra mile. It motivated me to try even harder.

So you go and "settle" for whatever you can get. I choose the "harder right" rather than the "easier wrong".

 

Of course, it does. They couldn't even make decent consumer products.

 

Yeah yeah yeah. When were those “final days” to which you refer? You can give a range if you like. Precision is not necessary. When was it?

 

It was not a factor. Lenin’s NEP was the factor.

 

The question posed here is ridiculous. Democracy and capitalism are components of freedom. Socialism is tyranny. Democracy allows the people to empower the government... dictate what they will do. Capitalism empowers the individual, allowing them to take the job they want, get the education they want, live where and how they want. Some people do, however, opt out of "getting ahead" and blame others for their own failures. That's a failure of individual responsibility, not the system.

 

Last 10 years or so before the Soviet Union went away. It was a last ditch attempt to minimize the unrest of the population. You really should read more than leftist tomes.

 

Well said.

Meantime it's actually never easier to do it wrong. You pay for it, eventually. These kids (young and old) who think 'no responsibility' is some kind of win, haven't lived long enough under the cost of such a premise, to understand how painful it will be.

 

Right.

As you know (because I have proved it), no one and no institution can ever rightly own land; but governments administer possession and use of the land within the area of their authority because that's what government is: the sovereign authority over a specific area of the earth's solid surface. They have no jurisdiction or legal power to do so anywhere else, and no responsibility to secure the rights of any but their own citizens.

We've been over this before. Bangladeshis in Bangladesh are reliant on the government of Bangladesh to secure their rights, not the US government. I'm not sure which part of that self-evident and indisputable fact of objective physical reality you are having so much trouble understanding.

 

There are lots of social mammals. We are different -- and better -- both because we are smarter and because we have rights. Neanderthals were likely as smart as we are, and were indisputably bigger and stronger, but our ancestors wiped them out because they had rights, and neanderthals didn't.

Opposable thumbs are nice, and they no doubt stimulated the tool use that stimulated the brain growth; but it was having rights that took us out of the caves.

It's not altruism, it's evolution. People with rights just outcompete people without, and I have explained exactly why: when A abrogates B's rights, C, D, etc.'s reproductive success is harmed. That gives them a selfish motive to secure B's rights against A. That is true of humans but not of other social animals because of our unique biological identity.

 

Sandy Shanks said:
A few days ago I wrote, "Thursday's report from the Commerce Department showed that prices rose 6% in October from a year earlier. That was the smallest increase since November 2021 and was down from a 6.3% year-over-year rise in September. Gas prices nationwide have plunged to their lowest level since February.

"The economy added 263,000 jobs, while the unemployment rate stayed 3.7%, still near a 53-year low, the Labor Department said Friday.

"The Biden economy is on fire, full employment, job growth, robust spending, and now an easing of inflation combined with lower gas prices. What's not to like?"
************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I have been following politics for over a half century. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever envision a part of the American government causing severe damage to our economy. The actions taken by the Fed yesterday and its announcement that it will do it again and again caused the stock market to crash.

Moreover, the Fed's actions combined with the expert naysayers promising a recession may cause Americans to talk themselves into a recession by hoarding their money, killing the robust spending that is driving our economy now. After all, Americans lost millions in their investment accounts yesterday and again today, and that is directly related to what the Fed did and is saying.

CNN reports, "The good vibes on Wall Street are fading fast: the US slide tumbled yet again on Friday as investors come to grips with a souring economy."

Question: Is a "souring economy" a bad thing? The Fed and CNN seem to think so. See what I mean!

CNN continued, "Is the Fed to blame? Sentiment on Wall Street can change on a dime, and this week is evidence of that: The Dow has tumbled about 1,050 points just since the Federal Reserve’s dour policy update at 2 p.m. ET Wednesday.

"Stocks had been riding high this month on weaker-than-expected inflation and a number of stronger-than-expected reports on the broad economy and the job market. Investors were hopeful that the Federal Reserve could slow its historic pace of rate hikes and inflation could right itself sometime next year without tipping the economy into a recession.

"That excitement continued right up until Fed Chair Jerome Powell crashed Wall Street’s party Wednesday with some tough news: Economists at the Fed believe US gross domestic product, the broadest measure of America’s economy, will barely grow next year.

"And they predict the US unemployment rate will rise to 4.6% by the end of 2023, which means roughly 1.6 million more Americans will be out of work."

According to Powell, throwing 1.6 million Americans out of work is a good thing.

It will reduce inflation.

This is nuts!

 

Yeah but only really flourished under capitalism, unless you consider slavery as a valid alternative I suppose

 

Nonsense, creativity is all well and good but when we’re talking economics, innovation drives demand. When there is demand for your products, profits follow. It’s a simple concept. Take away profits the drive to innovate diminishes.

 

So for all intents and purposes, individual Govts will own individual territories.

You can't say a Govt will not own the land, if the Govt is doing everything a landowner does (ie retain and protect).

 

It's ever the billionaires that come up with revolutionary ideas after they become rich. It's always the "starving artist" and sometimes why become successful but that wouldn't change under a socialist business.

Watch the wealthy fight the implementation of Fission energy because while that would change the world for the better the utility companies and oil companies don't want it to work because money.

Capitalism has proven to stifle progress because money interests fight against anything that hurts their bottom dollar even if it will literally save the planet.

 

Yeahright the USSR was not socialist at that time. Learn your history before declaring your history.

 

So your are sticking out your neck here to declare that people won’t innovate just because they see a way to improve things. That absurd to the extreme. If profit is the only driver, we’re ****ing SCREWED. Think about this: in socialism there will certainly still be engineering departments in companies. Engineers aren’t interested in sitting home watching TV. They will be engineering, and to keep their jobs they will INNOVATE. Big ****ing DUH!

 

Capitalism is in late stage crisis and it’s collapsing.

 

I am an engineer. Pay me a set wage and I'll be mediocre. Pay me extra for excelling... and I will excel. I say that as an engineer that received $10,000 for developing a patented device: "Six degree of Freedom Piezoelectric Platform for Laser Aiming"

 

Look into Lenin’s NEP where he said that STATE CAPITALISM would be a good alternative that should be followed in order to develop Russia’s productivity, innovation, and distribution of commodities.

 

And you think there would be no rewards for performance under socialism??????????????????????????

 

Marxists and socialiosts have been saying that since 1900

It is doing fine

 

No that is why socialism always fails

 

It literally collapsed in 1929 and had to be resuscitated.

 

And BOY!!! Did it come ROARING BACK!