The Chinese agenda

I agree; divided we fall. Aside from that, I don't think Americans will really have a voice until they stop voting, period.

 

Do you think the slow burn approach is going to be acceptable to indigenous Chinese when they start running out of room and pollution gets too bad within mainland China?? 100 years down the track I guess the worse scenario is China agrees to a caliphatic state in the mid east if they take on India. At that time Chinese investment in Africa has formed an African Union which is capable of engaging the European Union over the Med, leaving China to occupy the peninsula to the bering straits and taking on the US for dominance of the eastern pacific and all security and trade throughout Asia. Populations grow exponentially and China has a big headstart.

 

Of course the Chinese are not identical to Americans, but for two nations with such different histories they do share a remarkable number of similarities. The strength of an exceptionalist mindset amongst reactionaries in both nations is striking in particular.

 

You may be right about China, but your knowledge of America is out of date. The only intellectual ferment in the USA goes on exclusively among the right. Cross-pollination of ideas is happening at a frightening rate. A "Perfect Storm" is occurring politically and economically. Such storms sweep the seas clean.

 

American imperialism took a different format from British. Similarly Chinese version of colonialism is to buy up large parts of Africa for raw materials. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

 

taiwan is not a nation, its a result of a civil war. Just like america civil war, except US didn't lose any state after the civil war. china claim parts of south china sea, which does not has any inhabitant before. china didn't claim vietnam, malaysia as their own nation. China never said anything about annex other nations into their own. border dispute is different than claim a nation.

 

Some in Europe? I've not heard of them. Even in the US, where there is a rather large amount of anti-Chinese rhetoric, it doesn't really go beyond alarmism in its constructiveness and mainly forwards the position that we should continue arming Taiwan. I have yet to hear of a politician, anywhere, say that the US or EU should be actively trying to neutralize China.

 

China is a communist dictatorship and dictatorships do not share the same values or principles of democratic countries like the United States. This could possibly lead to a clash of interests in the future between the two nations (China and the US has already had clashing interests already) and is one reason why democratic countries should be able to defeat and outsmart China in any possible confrontation or clash of interests. Governments which do not have shared values and principles are more inclined to have clashing interests and as such, the United States needs to be prepared to defend it's own interests against any threats that China may present. If the Chinese government valued human rights and democratic principles, then it is possible (though it is not guaranteed) that the US and China might have a more productive relationship rather than an adversarial one (but even democratic countries sometimes have a clash of interests, but they are far less likely to fight each other and more likely to settle their disputes peacefully with each other) which currently exists in my view. It would be terribly naive of the United States to not regard China as an enemy with it's current government in power.

 

Do you know what intellectual honesty is? The Spratly Islands and the surrounding seas are part of the nations of SE Asia. I won't tolerate sophism on this subject. I will go after you with hammer and tongs when you dissemble.

 

The Chinese are coming!

This week saw them send their first aircraft carrier out on sea trials.

Yes, its only the beginning for them, but it will be intersting to see how quickly they learn naval air arm techniques.

What will also be interesting is to see how quickly they build their own carriers in say the next 5-10 years.

Being British i'll be keeping an eye open to see if the Chinese first indigineous carrier is built quicker than our own first 65,000 ton plus carrier the Queen Elizabeth, which is already well underway in construction.

The US, with its 11 carriers faces the possibilty of this force being reduced, to meet the needs of the possible future reduced defence budget, to get the country out of its 15 trillion $ debt.

 

Excuse me, what?

I mean, are you serious?

First of all, Taiwan (also known as Formosa) has been inhabited for over 30,000 years.

In the 16th century, it was colonized first by the Dutch, until they were ejected by local natives in 1662.

Then it was annexed by the Guing Dynasty in 1683. Then in 1871, a Japanese ship was shipwrecked off the coast, and local natives beheaded the ccrew of 54. Japan demanded compensation, and a small war ensued. At the end of this war in 1895, the Quing Dynasty turned over the islands to Japan.

Formosa remained part of the Japanese Empire for 50 years, until their defeat at the end of WWII.

Now you and many others claim that Taiwan is not a nation.

However, it has been independent now for over 60 years. It has been independent for longer then Germany, Georgia, Poland, even India.

If that does not qualify it for statehood, I am not sure what does.

 

Chinese ambitions will be quelled by the fact of nuclear proliferation. Any of the states surrounding China can defuse Chinese belligerence by acquiring the ability to vaporize Shanghai and Beijing.

 

Yes, they have a strict "no vaporization" policy in China.

But that hasn't stopped China from antagonizing India to no end.

 

It turns out China's 1st carrier isn't such an anamoly. Even Thailand, India, Australia have at least 1 aircraft Carrier.

 

Americans shouldn't have to worry about Taiwan. She can remain independent and a major trading partner of Mainland China. All the weapons systems Americans sell to Taiwanese will soon end up in Chinese hands.

 

Don't worry China is rapidly building a massive naval fleet.

 

The Chinese have created a permanent enemy in India. It didn't have to be this way. Deng would not have antagonized the Indians.

 

Yea, true.

Of course, what is sold to Taiwan are the same systems sold to Germany, Saudi Arabia, and a great many other countries around the world.

And in case you did not know, these are not the same systems the US uses. They are less capable then that the US military uses, with a fraction of the classified equipment.

Of course, most people do not know or understand this. They hear "PATRIOT Missiles sold to Taiwan", and think they are getting the newest stuff, and that CHina will take it from them.

Wrong. I could point out a ton of differences between the two systems. In fact, if you want to see some of them, come to El Paso in October.

October 22-23 is going to be the next Amigo Airsho. It will be held at Biggs Airfield, and I can show you all around. And at every show we set up displays of both US PATRIOT equipment, and the German PATRIOT equipment. I can show them both to you, and point out a great many differences between the two.

Of course, we are also talking about a 30+ year old system. The newest air defense system is still US only, nobody else has the THAAD system yet.

 

Yes, it's a shame and a foreign policy path that will lead to massive suffering.

 

I think China has every right to build their ego to the American standard.

 

What does that mean? Are you talking about hubris or what?

 

Yep, every nation has a right to build up its military............as long as it keeps its forces out of the English channel!

 

Chinese carrier Shi Lang at sea.

 

Shi Lang was the Qing Dynasty commander who conquered Taiwan. Is the name coincidental?

 

Personally, i think the Chinese have done a remarakble job for a nation that has not had a carrier before, to being able to turn a $20 mil rusting Ukranian hull, into a modern sophisticated carrier.
It must of been a monumental job to of redesigned the ship, to accomodate the Chinese engineering items.
The Chinese have learnt quickly, and it has been reported, that even before completing this ship they have started building their own carrier.
Its only the beginning for them, but lets see how they develop their carrier forces in the next decade or so.