I rejected Organized Religion all over again today...

My promised my grandmother I would at least try to give Christianity another try. I went to a church today for service and it was the same sermon I remember as a child. The preacher spoke about how Jesus loved everyone, regardless of their choices, and we should do the same, and how you should never judge anyone for their choices, unless you are prepared to die and be judged yourself. It was all together a good message.

Then after the sermon, I overheard a group of "Christians" speaking. And, what they said was also the same as I remember. They were the same judgemental hipocriits I remember from church when I was younger. So I chose to leave and I will continue trying to live a good life without the need to organized reigion.

 

That is a nice (cynically stated) experience for someone to have at church. That experience speaks to the understanding of those people you overheard, and not necessarily the intent behind Christianity. I truly wish you could have had a more interesting and acceptable 'overhearing' of subject matter.

 

well. what did they say?

 

They said several things......About how Muslims and Jews should all stay out of america.....I asked them why they practice a religion about a jew if they hate them so much.

One even said that we should kill anyone who isnt Christian.....He gave me a dirty look when I said "That's nice, Osama". LOL

The guy that said we should kill all non-Christians also mentioned stoning gays like it says we should in the bible.......I happen to know he cheats on his wife alot and mentioned that the bible says he should be stoned to death as well

 

You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in god. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him.[

 

That's the secret of Christianity my friend......Living a good life is meaningless......According to Christian dogma....You must worship god......If you do not....YOu will go to hell regardless of how good you were in live.....That is the contridiction of god being a loving, good beng.....Any being that loved unconditionally would never demand worship in return for love.

 

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius

 

And so, your good works (ergo 'virtues') are what would allow you in a heaven? And it is you who says what are good works, based on self and one's selfish desires. What if someone else disagrees with your values and what you term as good works? And then we get into 'sincerity.' If one is 'sincere,' then all is OK, even tho they may be 'sincerely wrong.

Christianity is the ONLY religious philosophy in the world that is NOT works based, being 'good enuf' to go to a heaven, but is based on grace--unmerited favor with God.

And only man's pride & arrogance (scripture says that 'the greatest enemy between man & God is man's pride') keep one from receiving the free gift of God by the 'work' done on the cross in their behalf. And so, Wolfie, are pride & arrogance virtues?!!

 

You are sugar coating it a bit. You must accept X or suffer for all eternity. I do not subscribe to such beliefs. A person should not suffer for all eternity for choosing one faith or belief over another.

Helping my elderly neighbor (housebound, one lung, etc) is hardly prideful or arrogant. I am helping him because he quite literally has no one else to help him. He tries to pay me, I refuse. My Christmas card was the only one he received for the season. I prefer the idea of a life based on virtue and not the idea that I must worship an idea to gain favor in a deities eyes.

Do good for the sake of doing good.

 

Stop the presses!! You mean to tell me that sinners go to church? How are we to believe such lies?

 

Thank god they're hypocrites... wouldn't want them to actually believe that they could unload their moral baggage onto torture victims.

 

I'm afraid it is YOU who is 'sugar coating' the situation.

There is such a thing as 'truth.' And when that truth is presented to the human heart (their core being or 'soul'), and then rejected consciously, that person is denying and not acknowledging the truth. It is a spiritual situation and a condition of the heart of a man.

And so YOUR rejection based on YOUR sugar coating of 'must worship a deity' is suitable reason for rejection of the truth, and is but YOUR self-rationalization in denying the truth when it has been presented B4 you.

I know of no Christian in 'my realm' of Christianity that worships God because "they have to!" We worship God in acknowledging Him and His love & grace in our lives, and do so out of a feeling of "Thankfulness."

But the un-regenerate man, who is self reliant and is his all-in-all, is described applicably by the NT scripture,

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New Living Translation)

"But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means."

And so, being dead 'spiritually,' the un-regenerate man stumbles around as a lost dead man, blinded by his foolish heart, and makes his excuses as to why he cannot see the truth.


And in the Book of Romans, written to the Gentiles in Rome, the gist is:
And, where we were once sinners (those who 'practice' sin) who could do righteous works; we have now been given' the gift of righteousness by the obedience and works of one man, and have now become 'practicers of righteousness' who still may sin.

Our focus & direction has changed---not perfect, but being perfected by the Spirit of God by following the example of Jesus Christ, the servant 'obedient even until death.'

And so, YOUR righteous work of helping this man is but a righteous act of one who practices sin and the rejection of the truth. Those who follow the truth when they do righteous acts do so giving God the glory and are selfless & humble when so doing.

For another 'truth' is: "No one is righteous (of their own), but all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Written for the un-regenerate man who has not yet received the gift of righteousness from the works of one obedient man.

But you have your laundry list (including 'fear based forced worship, etc.) justifying YOUR rejection of the truth, and as long as you are content in stumbling thru this life as a blind man, relying upon your mortal biased reasoning, God will allow you to do so as having granted man free will to choose to follow the truth...



BTW, for those who judge themselves as 'self-righteous,' as being righteous because of their own works; the word "sin" also means to 'miss the mark,' and God's righteousness being the standard or mark..

 

It's almost as if you are not consciously "denying and not acknowledging" all the truths that Wolverine doesn't acknowledge, either. Except one.

 

Good idea. There is no need for you in Church.

Quantrill

 

Didnt really 'get' the typical FW hit-and-run 1-liner post...but then I didnt have my 'Danish' with my coffee this morning...

 

Those are not truths in my mind. I have have never been given a reason to accept those as truth.

My truth is centered around the quote I posted earlier.

 

Bottom line is: You judge yourself based on your own virtues..ergo, you are self-righteous. Sorry to have to give you the bad news...

 

Nope. I judge myself by the betterment and respect given to other people.

I choose to follow one of man's laws, you choose to follow a different set of man's laws.

The difference being that aversion to my moral code does not come with the threat of eternal punishment.

 

Again, you continue to 'purposely' disregard the reason given of why the majority of ppl come to Christ---not out of eternal punishment, but of love, forgiveness, thankfulness, and the personal realization of the sacrifice at the cross of an innocent man in their behalf, as their substitute, and for their sins.

But that's all you got, Wolfie, besides your dwelling on a 'deity demanding worship' (also a faux premise and poor excuse); The dictionary defines worship as showing “homage or veneration." God does require that we recognize Him and not other gods, and that we show our allegiance to Him alone.

And so you and your 'virtues' of self-pride & arrogance as in knowing all-in-all, do disqualify yourself from any spiritual intellect in understanding the mind of God, aka His Holy Spirit (which 'searches' the mind of God").

But continue in your folly, for scripture states, "As a dog doth return to his vomit, so doth a fool return to his folly."

 

On this particular subject you only serve to push me further away.

 

That is the purpose of the Word of God, it is a 2-edged sword; it can heal as a scalpel, or cut to the quick with conviction...I thk you for giving validity to the intention of the word of truth as has been presented w/o bias or the intent of coddling the hearer..

 

I don't see it as the word of truth. So no need to thank me.

 

BTW, the truth concerning who each serves is this: "ALL men serve some god or gods. Primarily their selves and in pleasing themselves; but also other gods such as $$$ (one doesnt have to be rich to worship $$, for the poor can do as well), seeking fame, lusting for possessions, pleasing ppl, etc. Whatever takes the place of the one true God, is an idol and a false god...even music can be one's 'god, if the purpose behind it is based on 'self!''

 

i really find this hard to believe. are you trolling?

 

I don't see it as the word of truth. So no need to thank me.