5 off duty cops were at Ventura bar shooting...all unarmed.

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by slackercruster, Nov 8, 2018.

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  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Reading many responses on here people may get themselves into trouble over this and there have been documented cases where they have
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You mean the "subjects" who can walk the streets without fear of being shot?
     
  4. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They just get acid thrown in their face.

    Its sad how far the brits have fallen.
     
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  5. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    In a lot of places you would, it depends on the state and how good of a lawyer you have sometimes. There are some places where deadly force is authorized in a lot more cases than others. Stand your ground and Castle Doctrine laws get tricky and much of it depends on being able to convince law enforcement that you were in fear for your own safety or life. Almost all of these cases are handled on a case to case basis.

    In some places you have a duty to try to retreat and run away from the threat if you can. In other places if you feel legitimately threatened then you can use deadly force immediately. Some places castle doctrine applies to your home, some places it applies to your home and property, etc.

    But yes there are plenty of documented cases where the person "defending themselves" ends up being the one in handcuffs for one reason or another.
     
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  6. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    There is already sensible gun regulations with strict policing and meaningful punishment.
     
  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Such may indeed be the case, and it is not being denied. But when the only other alternative is being a victim of crime, possibly crippled or killed in the process, one has little choice but to take the chance and simply hope for the best.
     
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  8. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    NPR story is worthless because it only counts actually shooting an assailant as defensive gun use. The vast majority of the time simply seeing a gun in the hands of a potential victim stops the crime from being committed. My own wife had an experience with this late one night when she had a flat tire on a remote section of highway. A guy pulled over and started banging on her window demanding she roll it down until she pointed her pistol at him and said go away or I'll shoot you. He went away.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It is a numbers game. For instance, if a guy has a revolver 10 guys can easily swarm him and take him out. Since he will shoot a couple of them anyway they might as well get him before he reloads. And if someone gets shot doing it he will be hailed as a hero.
     
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  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Got ANY other statistics?

    Now HERE is an interesting research paper showing that an awful lot of so called defensive gun uses are not that at all

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
     
  11. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So now were killing 10 people instead of 1?

    Again, just plain stupid. The firearm, with an extended magazine, was in the hands of a trained killer. A killer who took out all possible armed resistance in the first few seconds. A killer who, in your fantasy, is standing 30-40 ft from the crowd. Despite the weapon and the crowd size he killed "only" 11 people, 5 of those at the front door within the first few seconds and...

    1 an armed, trained, LEO wearing protection.


    Because the crowd was smart enough to run.

    Trapped? You go girl. Otherwise follow the advice of LEO and run away.

    Interestingly if you guys had half the sack you claim on these boards you'd never need a gun.
     
  12. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From your article.........

    You must have missed that part.
     
  13. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you'll be the first on to rush him?
     
  14. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    Well he was stopped by a gun. If he had planned it better many more could have been killed with a bigger knife and a better detonator for the propane canisters. It is not the tools people use to kill others that should be changed, it is the hearts and minds of those who kill that should be changed. I guess it doesn't matter to some people how many are killed as long as the killer doesn't use a gun.
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Except such does not happen. The Pulse nightclub shooting was evidence of that. Even when Omar Mateen had to stop shooting because his rifle malfunctioned, and he had to look up a video on his phone of how to fix the malfunction, everyone present in the club continued to cower and simply wait to be killed.
     
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  16. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    We could have a battle of statistics and studies until the cows came home but for a moment let's concentrate on the example I gave where a gun was used by my wife. Would you rather she was assaulted, raped, maybe murdered because in your opion statisticly guns are not used in self defense often enough to justify their being legal to own?
     
  17. opion8d

    opion8d Banned Donor

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    :roflol:
     
  18. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sure ... but what that hint of "regular militia" should mean is still unclear and disputed, isn't it?

    I see it different, but OK ... opinion vs opinion at least :)

    The best laws do not help if they are not applied properly and completely ... or if laws have gaps and / or citizens can successfully ignore laws! Agreed?

    That's the problem here in CA!

    Maybe it's ... but shows the bullshit of the approach all too clearly, right?
     
  19. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    What new law will take guns away from criminals before they use them in a crime?
     
  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    There is no militia matter any longer. Firearms ownership by the public does not have to be justified in order to be legal. Not anymore at least. Such is the nature of the current legal landscape. Get used to it.

    What firearm-related restrictions were successfully ignored in this particular matter? Explain such.

    How so? If a state turned down the financial incentive, eighteen year olds within the state would be able to engage in the consumption of alcoholic beverages legally.
     
  21. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    But it is this way written in your constitiuon ...

    Is private arms trading beyond the borders of a state allowed ... so Mr. Miller from California privately buys an AR-15 from Mr. Smith of Florida? No ... but does this happen, or does anyone seriously doubt that there are US citizens who successfully ignore this ban?

    Here this guy should have been mentally ill ... why could he continue to legally have a gun?


    Why is an 18-year-old legally allowed to have a gun but not to buy whiskey? Please explain to me the deeper meaning of this absurdity!
    Either he can do both with 18 or only both with 21 ... only that makes sense for me!
     
  22. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    It is not the constitution of myself, it is the constitution of the united states. That matter aside, however, discussion of the militia is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

    The firearm that was utilized in the incident in question, was acquired within the state of California, in full compliance with all paperwork requirements currently in place in the state of California. Therefore whatever is occurring outside the state of California played absolutely no part in the incident in question.

    Because those that evaluated him psychologically concluded he was neither mentally ill, nor a threat to anyone. The official diagnosis by those who made the evaluation was that he was in good mental health.

    Firearms and their ownership is a constitutionally recognized and protected right. Alcoholic beverages are not. Nowhere in the united states constitution, nor any state constitution, is there is a constitutional right to engage in the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Therefore it is an activity that can be subjected to far greater legal restrictions than firearms ownership.
     
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  23. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that was a good thing for any blacks in the bar since they would probably have been murdered by the cowardly cops.
    Your nra meme is full of ****, as usual.

    https://thinkprogress.org/police-kill-black-security-guard-9927b7b9dc0f/


     
  24. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I liked all your points until you got to this. We are a nation made up of an ocean of personal rights, with islands of State power within it.

    Not an ocean of State power with islands of personal rights.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018

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