Afghan boy suicide bombers tell how they are brainwashed

you are just being ridiculous. you are implying that being observant suggests criminal intent.

in the context of YOU implying that I am a stalker, this was a relevant comment.

your posts here generalise ALL muslims.

my mother did not have a negative reaction to Muslims. she noted that during the suez crisis, there was a negative attitude to people perceived as British. she could understand the context and why this might happen.

yes it does. if you understood my post you would be aware that the creation of the state of Israel was a significant point in history which contributed to this. the fact that for decades, the west has manipulated the muslim world because it sits on top of huge oil reserves, and in the post WWII period used ome of these countries to fight proxy wars with the soviets, plus we have let Israel shyt on the people of the region (not just the palestinians) for the last half century and not taken a stand has contributed.

however, the period since 9/11 has seen the contempt (I do believe that that is the correct word) for muslims overflow into the media, and the public consciousness.

it is inevitable that this will serve to radicalise young people!

sorry - people in the west got sanitised versions of what happened. you have no idea what I am talking about, and you have no idea of what these people saw on their media.

the way the invasion was marketed, many muslims felt under attack. I was in Malaysia a month os so prior to the invasion, and some people there were
already stating that the invasion was inevitable, because since 9/11 the americans had decided to start a war against Islam. this view may not have been common, but it was circulating. the sense that it was Islam that was under attack was fed by that war.

yes, muslims felt under attack in the west before then. Afer 9/11 there were muslim women I knew who stopped wearing hijab, because they were afraid to. conversely, some of their daughters who had previously never worn hijab, and who had never been religious, began to take their religion seriously - it may have been an act of defiance, or it may have been that what was happening made them begin to wonder who they were. Some I have spoken to said they felt it was important that they do not deny who they were, and that if they continued being as they were, but made it clear that they were muslim, it might help people to understand that not all muslims were terrorists.

when I refer to people from traditional societies these will come from various African cultures, south asian cultures, and some south east asian cultures. They can include, to a lesser extent, people from chinese cultures and people from central asia and even eastern europe to some extent, in the past it may have included several others, as well as people from Muslim cultures generally.

these cultures are more "traditional" than western culture and many still tend to have a greater emphasis on collective values, rather than individual values. In my experience, many of these people can have culture shocks when emigrating to western countries, although the extent depends on the degree of difference, how patriarchal the originating culture is, and even how large the community is. where the community is relatively small, people are ess "cushioned" and are more often forced to adapt to the values of the host culture.

working with women, my programme made sure that they were aware of their legal rights, as well as more general information that would assist them. I found that Muslim community leaders were very supportive of this.

this post is already long, so I will have to look at some of these issues in another post - but IRT the saudis and iranians- they are probably typical of a cohort of young people from these countries, but not representative of all.
There are some who feel differently, and it can depend on a whole range of factors - the same as for any of us.

polls are not that useful in terms of social research. they give a snapshot, but do not give a braosder understanding. a braodrange of media reports is better than a small range, but media reports in general will still focus on what os "newsworthy" - and normal is not generally newsworthy. media reports will virtually always emphasize the unusual, or situations where there is conflict.

the Australian investigation showed other factors at play. Indian students were attacked because they were "soft targets" - not because of racism, and attacks against Indian students have been no higher than several other groups. This also mirrored the observations made by members of the general public at the time of the events. Anecdotally, the cohorts of students most racism is directed towards have been Africans, and women wearing hijab.

I ecall looking at the Pew report and finding problems with the survey instrument.

irrelevant.

thats another discussion, but on this forum I have discussed that I know gay men whose reaction to the negative associations expressed about gays in the community they grew up in (60's, 70's and even 80's) have reacted by becoming ultra camp. That was a strategy they used to cope with the derogation of who they were.

Also, I know Aboriginal people who also have overplayed the "differences" around their aboriginality for much the same reason. some of the less educated are overtly hostile in places where it is irrelevant because "we took their land."

The underlying reasoning (if you can call it that!) in all situations is the same.

 

within all cultures, there are people who seek to impose their values on others. women especially tend to do this. in fact, bullying is often a huge part of female culture, especially among young women.

what a bully might choose to focus on may well be determined by culture, and the argument in cases like this is that they seem to think they are right to impose "standards" on other women. In this case they use religion to justify their position.

women are generally the harshest critics of other women, and the role of "god's police" (ie being a moral guardian) is by no means unique to women in Islam. For centuries it has also been common in the west. even mothers do it to their daughters.

In the cases I am referring to, it is best that bullies who engage in "religious bullying" are treated the same as any other bully.

The victims usually are not making any particular point, just getting on with their lives. they feel attacked by the bully and will vary in their response according to their personality.

HR is a relatively modern concept. the clash is really between tradition and modernity, rather than Islam and the west. Most muslim societies are moving forward on HR issues, as are most other traditional societies. many still have a long way to go. In Saudi and Iran, due to their being religious states, religion is used as a "justification" for the values they espouse. It is my belief (and this is evidence based) that things have become worse in both these societies over the last 3 - 4 decades in many areas. religion is being used as a justification for this, and the perception that Islam is under attack can be used to support this justification. It doesn't always work. young educated people in these countries are aware of that, and perhaps there will be chamges within the next generation or so.

BTW - the backlash against "western values" in terms of HR expectations is not limited to Islamic states. China also ctrisicises the west for our trying to influence their HR practices.

 

Brainwashing happens on a massive scale and is quite easy since Islam is inherently violent and cannot be interpreted in any other way.

 

then please state that muslims suicide bombers alone are responsible for their choices in victims and nobody else is at all at fault for their behavior.

come on i know you can do it.

 

sure. there is no harm in stating the obvious.
but the word "alone" can't be used.

you, as a citizen of a sovereign country, ought to take
some responsibility and criticize your own government by
causing all the exploitations, deaths and misery in the
third world countries.

now it's your turn to 'do it' nikey.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

That is not meant to endorse or condone actions that result in the death of people or mutation of culture. However perhaps your quote would more accurately read "gitmo has mostly contained grown adults...".

It does not surprise me that these bomber recruiters in positions of power and privilege lie about things to have others do what they want. Scum!

 

Why don't u go back and read our Convo,I been stAting we are responsible for the innocents who have fallen because of our weapons.

 

This from a citizen of a state constantly involved in illegal invasions and mass murder of Muslims! Sancta simplicitas!