America and Guns, will the debate ever stop?

Weapons that fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger have been greatly restricted (to the point of defacto illegality) since 1934. Every shot Lanza fired had a separate trigger pull. Also, from what I've read, due to video game training, he rarely fired a full magazine. He tended to reload before running out of ammunition.

The thing is, mass shootings are rare things. Rifle homicides (all rifles from hunting rifles to semiautomatic so-called 'assault' rifles) in 2011 (last year I could get this info) were 323 out of 12,664 homicides. (2.5%). About twice as many murders were done by use of body parts (hands, etc.) (72 and about 50% more by clubs and hammers (496). Knives were much more involved in murders than rifles, about 5 times as many (1694).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Great Britain had about the same number of gun murders they ahve today, before the ban. It didn't decrease their numbers any, but it did result in more overall violent crime.

 

Statistics please.

Deaths from gunshot wounds in the UK were as follows -

2001 ...................... 72
2002 ...................... 96
2003 ...................... 80
2004 ...................... 68
2005 ...................... 76
2006 ...................... 49
2007 ...................... 56
2008 ...................... 53
2009 ...................... 39
2010 ...................... 39
2011 ...................... 58
2012 ...................... 39

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

But let's look at the rate of all deaths from gunshot wounds in the UK (not just homicide).

The rate per 100,000 in 1995 was 0.39
The rate per 100,000 in 1996 (the year previous to Dunblane - listed elsewhere) was 0.42
The rate per 100,000 in 1998 (the year after the 1997 legislation) was 0.26
The rate per 100,000 in 2011 was 0.22

A 52% drop in firearm fatalities between 1996 and 2011.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/england-and-wales

Of course the figures vary within a small margin from year to year, but while all manner of claims may be made about violent crime in the UK, the rate of firearm fatalities has declined steadily since the passing of the Firearms (Amendment) (No.2) Act 1997.

Make whatever case you deem judicious about your own society, but would you mind not misrepresenting mine for your political purposes?

 

Under 1 per 100,000 the whole time. Gun deaths have never been a major problem in UK, even before the ban, was the point I was making. I was wrong on the specifics.

 

Fair enough - and a valid point it was. You are correct in your position that the UK has never had a major problem with guns. And thank you for conceding that the specifics you quoted were not entirely correct - it takes a real man to admit where he might have been mistaken - you have my respect.

 

Anyone notice that the OP has not posted anything else in this thread? Troll thread?

 

Above statement sounds very violent and hate filled.

Murder weapons...OK. What do you call the weapon that saves an innocent life? Or those that are carried by soldiers, law enforcement, personal security, site security etc...do these folks carry murder weapons and are they yellow-bellied too?

BTW, weapons are inanimate objects without consciousness, reasoning or moral discernment, why do you assign a capital crime description/count to an inanimate object?

 

I don't think LOLO is still around...............

 

Didn't know that but thank you for the notice. Voluntary absence, I hope?

 

we can only hope...................

 

LOL! Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses, or to use the more modern idiom - Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

The poster's nom de plume is Iolo, which is a diminutive of the Welsh name Lorwerth.

 

His is, if accurate and relatively speaking, a detailed profile. Fleshes one out a bit in addition to their thoughts and font setting. Not one to be overly curious about profiles as one's statements can reveal one's nature enough, still I did check his when informed of his absence.

Know that it will eventually be a reality for us all but do hope that nothing regarding a permanent entry in a medical file is the reason for his or anyone's involuntary absence.

 

like, I think his proper nic was Iolo ..............but he did present a welsh sig but I believe he was from New Zealand or someplace like that

 

I agree that removal of guns has left England with a zero homicide gun rate, and that is well and good. However it is an authoritarian approach to solve the gun problem as it compromised civil liberties for a greater good.

Canada has guns and less gun violence, there are better ways to protect society than outright banishment of firearms in my opinion.

 

That may be so, but the per capita death rate from guns in Canada is still roughly 12 times that of the UK.

Gun homicides - Canada ................0.50 per 100,000 population

Gun homicides - UK ................0.04 per 100,000 population

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

 

Switzerland on that list has roughly the same gun homicide rate as the UK, yet they do not ban guns and every citizen there owns a gun.

The liberties of the people can be protected without the government taking their guns away for their own safety.

 

Might I suggest that you are mistaken?

Gun homicides - Switzerland ................0.52 per 100,000 population

Gun homicides - UK ................0.04 per 100,000 population

Actually higher than Canada at 13 times that of the UK.

 

Well it appears authoritarian government gun bans do work, but such is the price of freedom. I respectfully end this debate with you fine sir, good day.

 

I am not a devotee of authoritarianism, but if I may rephrase your point - the restriction of deadly weapons does seem to reduce the number of deaths therefrom in most societies. The relationship of such restrictions to freedom depends largely upon how one defines the word. However, each society evolves its own set of values, and I am happy to leave this discussion at this point. I thank you for your courteous responses.