America - Why?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,705
    Likes Received:
    74,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    If this is true - and I am happy to be corrected (caveat - but do expect a debate) then why?

    [​IMG]

    What has made America more dangerous? Why is there such a disparity between gun deaths? Is there a way to bring the gun deaths down while keeping availability of guns to those who need them?
     
  2. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    7,656
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Please split out

    -the suicides who would be alive if there were no handgun
    -the justified police shootings
    -the self defense shootings
    -the number of people who would be dead, maimed, raped etc
    if they had not shot the attacker
    -the number of people in other countries killed (just as dead) with other weapons
    -how many people who set out to murder failed because they had no handgun

    Then tell us how many Canadians are dead, maimed, raped etc because they were unable to defend themselves.

    (keep in mind the US has about ten times the population, so keep it proportional)

    Short of a serious and thorough analysis the poster above is nothing but sloganeering, like the rhetorical questions that follow it.

    Regarding the psychobabble about "small penis". Its not why I purchased a handgun. I dont have a small penis or any other size. And I never wanted to be a man, real or otherwise. Less still an inane shallow minded one.
     
    Toefoot and (deleted member) like this.
  3. MaxxMurxx

    MaxxMurxx New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In one German city (Frankfurt) in a time period of 15 years (1998 - 2013) 937 acts of first degree murder have been committed (62//yr).
    Murder weapons were (For unknown reasons 3 suicides are included in the statistics. I am too lazy to rewrite he table and recalculcate the numbers. Feel free to do it yourself. The message is: Human fantasy to create murder weapons does not depend from the availability of fire arms)

    Knife: 456x
    Illegal fire arms: 101
    Submachine guns (principally illegal): 40
    Baseball bats: 37
    Iron bar: 27
    Hammer: 26
    Axe: 24
    Signal Pistol: 21
    Police officers using service pistols: 21
    Hand grenade: 19
    Glass bottle:15
    Sword/Machete: 15
    Club: 15
    HIV Syringe: 13
    Stone: 10
    Legally possessed fire arms: 10
    Screw driver:9
    Car: 7
    Rope: 7
    Toy gun: 7
    Dog: 6
    Arson: 6
    Fork: 6
    Scissors: 4
    Suffocation (pillow): 4
    drive ring: 4
    Poison: 4
    Bazooka: 3
    Bicycle chain: 3
    Suicide with legally owned firearm: 3
    Crossbow: 3
    Explosives (industrial): 3
    Explosives (home made): 3
    Spade: 2
    Cooking Water: 2
    Illegaly possessed hunting rifle: 2
    Drowning in bathtub: 2
    Tear gas: 2
    Legally possessed hunting rifle: 1
    Chain saw: 1
    Blowtube: 1
    Golf bat: 1
    Motorcycle helmet: 1
    High heeled shoe: 1
    Cooking pan: 1
    Beer Mug: 1
    Sickel: 1
    Chandelier: 1
    self made pistol from iron pipe: 1

    http://www.profilm.de/insel/archiv/waffanl.htm
     
  4. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113

    America is not more dangerous. America nationally has a higher rate of homicide (4.8 ) than those other countries (ranging between 0.3 for Japan to Israel at 2.1) but a lower rate of total violent crime. For example, sexual assault: US (27 per 100,000 people), UK (70), Germany (57), Canada (77.4), Israel (60), Sweden (181), Switzerland (80),

    But not Japan which has a low sexual assault rate at 6.4, but Japan is culturally very different from the rest of the nations in your poster.

    America's biggest cities are dangerous. Thats were the violence is centered, and thats what drives the homicide rate up. Of the 14,173 murders in the US in 2012, 40% (5,777) occured in the biggest cities of the US. The 5 largest cities with 5% of the total US population account for 13% of all murders (NY Chicago Philadelphia LA Houston ), and even in those cities the murders are concentrated in certain areas.

    Continuing with the sexual assault category, the rate is 20 in small town and rural America, but 39 in cities of 1,000,000 people (all still lower than the national averages of the other nations excluding Japan). Even with all the firearms, the homicide rate in "middle America" is <3, generally comparable to other industrialized European nations, and the USA total violent crime rate is very low.

    Outside of the biggest cities, you are safer in the US than in those other countries except Japan.

    Violence in the inner cities is due to frustration, poverty, lack of education and economic opportunity, corruption, and failed social and family structures. Solve those and you solve the violence problem. Getting rid of guns doesnt solve the problem.
     
  5. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think it's important to note that America is the only thing of its' kind in all of history.
    To have someone from Australia making comparisons from your perspective is little different from a bird comparing bird statistics to those of fish. Life is better for birds, so all of the fish should want to be birds.
    But you can't speak fish language, so you peck at American gun owners.
    So, Taikoo, what did you buy?
     
  6. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Lies. Many countries measure their crime differently. You are not more safer in the US ANYWHERE than you are in Canada or (*)(*)(*)(*)ing Sweden.
     
  7. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You must explain what this "thing" is..
     
  8. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
  9. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Wow. They say that this free Canadian psychological health care is great, unless you need it. Test that assertion, and get back to us when you're again capable of intelligent discourse.
     
  10. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    .................. Ya. You claimed the US is unique and yet refuse to explain why. My sanity is fine. Yours on the other hand? Not so much.
     
  11. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think it is genetic , most of Americans are decedents of violent criminals , religious lunatics and antisocials from other continents.

    You are trying to reason with a nationalist , it is easier to teach a zebra algebra
     
  12. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,879
    Likes Received:
    4,856
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To be fair, statistical discrepancies work in both directions and you're quite wrong to dismiss the point about the large variation in rural to urban crime. There will be generally more crime in inner cities in Canada or Sweden than there is in rural America. That distinction will cross pretty much any border in both directions.
     
  13. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    7,656
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Smith and Wesson "ladysmith" .38 with brushed stainless steel, rosewood.
     
  14. Shooterman

    Shooterman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The more important question is just why should you care, and why should Americans care what you think?
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,705
    Likes Received:
    74,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And if I do - what then?


    Fewer than you think
    This IS proportional - and as for population density are you seriously trying to tell me that America has a higher population density than Japan?
    Which you still have not answered
    Ummm - who mentioned penises?
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,705
    Likes Received:
    74,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Is Maths a forbidden subject in the USA?

    937/15 = 62.5 (approx)

    And you are comparing that to over 10,000 in one year?

    The question was not even "How to stop all deaths" but "Why is your death rate so high"

    But I will ensure to keep all Americans away from Beer Bottles since they seem so dangerous according to your stats
     
  17. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    7,656
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  18. smevins

    smevins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Look at murder rates, not just gun deaths, and see if you reach the same conclusion.
     
  19. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There was 18 murders in Toronto last year. Canadas biggest city.

    Wanna bet that is less murders than rural american areas combined in most states?

    www.cbc.ca/toronto/features/homicide2013/

    Vancouver had 6 murders last year

    www.theprovince.com/news/Vancouver+...number+city+history+police/9334868/story.html

    Montreal had 28 which is still low compared to most of the US

    http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/fewer-murders-in-montreal-in-2013-1.1611361
     
  20. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    6,013
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
  21. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Spoken by someone who has not clue of what they are talking about, but don't have any way of responding to the truth I have presented.

    Crime data bases are fairly normalized among western industrial nations.
     
  22. Logician0311

    Logician0311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,677
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    As I've said before, "sexual assault" is defined differently in different countries and is not a valid point of comparison.
     
  23. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And as I have said before (more than once), some organizations normalize the data and make the data consistent.

    And as I have said before (more than once), western industrialized nations report data that is definitely comparable particularly if you take the time to learn the definitions. That type of comparison is done all the time all over the world.


    And I am always amused by people that compare select crime data from different countries and say "Look, America is terrible, why can't you be like us/them" (such as this OP), but when additional data that presents the complete picture is presented and shows its not America that is so bad but those other countries, then suddenly crime data is not comparable.
     
  24. MaxxMurxx

    MaxxMurxx New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is ONE CITY (Frankfurt).
     
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Americans have been sold the idea that you can buy manhood at the gun store, and the more guns you have, the more man you are. This has gone to such a ridiculous extent that even some women believe they can do it. When I grew up I was told that only a coward relied upon a gun for protection. Now we are told constantly that everybody needs one.

    If you don't believe me, just look at how vehemently I will be denounced for saying that guns should be strictly controlled and only licensed to extremely qualified individuals, then tell me that the denouncers aren't basically objecting as much as they would to being emasculated.
     

Share This Page