America's flawed democracy

That would be your take on it. It was a sad day that a impeachment ever came before the Senate. The left's loss of the election was too much to bear and so they developed a plan to destroy Trump. It surely gave a new meaning to Pride and Prejudice .

 

Come on man, I did not say Germany destroyed its neighbors, it forced many members to destroy their economies. It is has been done exactly for the reason to make Germany a great exporter.
Germany exports its good and services to the slave states, while whole EU provide "food" to those states.

Whatever it is. US has a LOT of issues with democracy, legal system etc etc.
BUT Electoral College is not a one of them.
It should stay well and alive exactly for the reason not to force states to be a slaves of New Your and California's progressive crazies.

 

I wouldn't pretend to be wise enough to provide a ranking.
I think France is a full democracy, although not perfect; the USA is (or rather was) usually regarded as a model of democracy, until Trump came along with his extreme-right ideas and his autocratic tendencies that are still at work today.
Some imperialist tendencies have always existed in the USA as in many other developed countries, but one must be aware that the role of world policeman played by the USA was expected by a big part of the western world. However I consider this to be another, different topic.

 

I never said that. My point was to rectify a certain number of false ideas you have about the EU.

 

Apparently not, according to the experts.

Stop right there. The only nation that thinks of the U.S. as "a model of democracy" is the propaganda-fed American population. Tell a lie ('Leader of Democracy') over and over and over again and your people will believe it. Though the rest of the world knows it's not true, Americans are isolated and know nothing of the outside world. Trump had nothing to do with it. The lynching of negroes, the Tuskegee Experiment, MK ULTRA, Operation TP Ajax, Bay of Pigs, the illegal invasion of Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Grenada, Irak, Syria, Libya, Serbia, the secret tests at Edgewood Arsenal, preparations for Operation Northwoods, the assassination of bin Laden, Olaf Palme, John Kennedy, numerous assassination attempts on Fidel Castro, the WMD hoax, etc. etc. etc. all took place before Donald Trump entered the scene.

 

Pure nonsense. What you don't understand is a phenomenon that is worldwide. That is, China has "outed" and now controls very largely International Trade.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Germany imposing upon any other nation in the EU tradewise. Which is pure nonsense.

Here is a list of countries that employ an electoral college (from here): US, Burundi, Estonia, India, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu.

Wow, what a really impressive list!

In the US, the Electoral College has defied the Popular Vote five times in its history to elect the loser of said vote. This last time was with Donald Dork. Which is contrary to any acceptable definition of how a Head of state should be elected ...

 

What is horrible regarding that impeachment was the fact that seven Senators had to told a reporter that they should vote for impeachment - but they didn't.

That's a bona-fide "democracy"? Methinks not. It is indicative of a nation where one-party is determined to run-the-nation and will do anything and everything to do so ...

 

Sorry for what happened. I live in the boonies and my internet connexion sometimes goes awry.

 

So the EC is bad now?

 

But it isn't fundamentally flawed. It works exactly at least until the Advent of computers.

 

I don't disagree with the vast majority of the above but none of it is an argument against having a President elected by popular vote. Even your last sentence is meaningless in terms of the process in which a President is elected because whoever the President might be or which way he is elected, he's still only one person and will never agree with all philosophies.

 

Always wondered what are extreme right ideas that Trump came along with?

 

When the winner five-times in American history of the popular-vote (last time TheDonald) then something is very wrong with a democracy.

The popular-vote is the simplest mechanism for any real democracy to vote fairly and equitably.

As I've said in this forum a hundred times, here is the list of those countries that employ today an Electoral College: the US, Burundi, Estonia, India, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad, Tobago and Vanuatu.

And please do explain why our Electoral College allocates ALL the EC votes to the winner? Where's the voting-legitimacy when your vote for the loser is thrown into the trash-can and ALL EC VOTES go to the winner?

Huh, where ... ?

 

I understand how it works and have no issue with how other countries conduct their elections. Majority rule has its own set of problems.

 

Your list is not relevant to the discussion. We can compare only US an EU as two types of unions of states. Since EU only exist about 30 years we cannot say which system of preserving the Union is better.
As of today, EU is overwhelmingly dominated by Germany, we can clearly see that that domination have some issues, like Brexit and other types of rebellions.

 

This completely ignores and undermines a fundamental principle of the founding fathers and framers. The framers purposely, consciously and deliberately did not want a tyranny of the majority, which they viewed as every bit as bad as a tyranny of a prince or dictator, running the country. That is why they established the electoral college to divide up the balloting for president among states of the republic, not among the people as a whole. That is why they set up state legislature to appoint senators and why they did not set up elections fore supreme court justices. They did conclude that the part of congress that has the most say in taxes and revenue should be elected by the people directly but they broke that up among small contained individual geographical regions within a state.

Supporting a popular vote election of a president stems from people who see that as a better way to political power and has nothing to do with the betterment of the country or the people as a whole.

 

The electoral college is fundamental to a republic. I suggest you take that civics course.

 

How about on this forum, where I posted something which provided a mashup of videos of republican hypocrisy, was deleted by the moderators because the moderator decided, instead of the forum's members, the message was not a sincere attempt to invite discussion. Put your gripe to PF, they censor like crazy on this forum.

 

Haven't really looked into it but it would be interesting if the electoral vote were divided up by districts from each state.

 

It's not.

 

I know it's not but I wonder what the outcome would be if it was.

 

Maybe an interesting philosophical question, but it would be completely orthogonal to the purpose which was to form a republic of states, not of thousands of counties or districts.

 

You would basicly have the same amount of electors but they would be proportional to the states vote. Rounding up to the victor any fraction of a total vote.

 

Yes. This is different from electing electors from each district. Maine and Nebraska do divide up their elector proportionally possibly based on district vote tallies; or possibly on total state-wide vote totals, like if 60% of the votes are for Trump electors and 40% for Biden, Trump gets 60% of the state's electors and Biden 40%, I dunno.