Animal Farm - George Orwell - pack of lies! Why used at school?

agree, I also have security, and knowing if someone opens a door to my house minutes after I leave or being able to lock the door remotely if I forgot to lock it is a trade off I make

yep, and now they can track you without your gps on, cause they know where every wifi is, because someone was near a wifi with gps on at one time and logged that wifi's location

I do not use cash much anymore, debit or credit card.. so again tracked...

I do think it makes it harder for people to start over or re-invent themselves, that can be good and bad...

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Yeah Animal Farm is a stingy attack not on Communism but on those who exploited the system for the sake of their own benefit. Orwell was a committed socialist, but also a realist who saw how workers could be exploited by those claiming to be looking after their interests. And Orwell was right, we really dont know if Communism or Socialism can work because we have never really seen it implemented.

 

But are you a Stalinist? Because that is what Orwell opposed and his first hand experience in Spain supported that. He may not have been to the Soviet Union but he fought alongside and heard the stories of those who did.

 

the antagonists being?

And why use the egg smashing analogy - the rich peasants who sabotaged the collective farms only had themselves to blame - same as today, if you don't like your job and decide to vandalise your work place, you get punished.

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Stalin was a great leader.

He turned Russia into a modern state.

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In the West, that is the case - it's the neo-liberal view and nothing else.

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Capitalist animals, perhaps.

 

The workers under the Soviet state, benefited far more than they did under the old system of feudalism.

This is what the book fails to address.

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Orwell was a 'bourgeoisie Socialist' - major difference.

 

It's really not a nit pick, because Heinlein wrote a bunch of really good stuff. You caught me in a brain pheart.
Strange that I would make that error, since I always thought of Burroughs as riding on the coat tail of Heinlein.
One of the best things from Heinlein was his diatribe about a man knowing what a man should know. I paraphrase:
A man should know how to steer a ship, set a bone, cook a decent dinner, set up a corporation, cultivate a garden, deliver a calf, and treat a woman as she deserves. Specialization is for insects! That strikes me as being as noble as Emersons' "Self Reliance" (which should be required reading by 10th. grade).

 

Orwell went to Spain as a 'revolutionary Tourist'.

Quite simply, the guy was an upper class twit, paid thousands to discredit Stalin, during WW2 when Uncle Joe was the vanguard against fascism.

 

Considering Stalin's Russia was functionally identical to fascist states throughout history, he was at the vanguard of fascism.

 

Ummm....do you mean Robert Heinlein?

 

Golly, Yosh, that was addressed 20 minutes before you posted, at the top of this page. But it's good to see that you're familiar with Heinlein, and good that you read beyond Orwell, so you didn't turn Commie as well.

 

And with this you show you know nothing about the man. Start with Down and Out in Paris and London, then get back to me

 

Pure nonsense.

Since when did Stalin advocate a corporatist society based on hierarchy?

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Yes, I have read the book.

And so what, Orwell lived amongst the tramps to get info for his book, but that doesn't make him a Marxist.

 

State capitalism is functionally identical to corporatism.

 

Kind of irrelevant - because Stalin was building up the SU, first to win the civil war, then to prepare for Hitler, then to steer its way through WW2, then rebuild - he was preparing the groundwork for Communism.

What do you think he should have done - sold out the country to the fascists and capitalists a la Trotsky?

Not likely.

 

I quite liked Animal Farm. I thought - as far as I was able to stand it - Atlas Shrugged was the most turgid, tendentious piece of poorly written crap I had read up until that time. And it had absolutely nothing to do with her 'philosophy'. I was actually quite eager and open to read it. Rand was just a godawful writer.

 

yes, I too watched Atlas Shrugged - very poor, so bad in fact that all the actors ditched after the first one - completely new cast in the second movie, wtf - LOL

 

Hey guys, didn't you hate that bird in the painted bird? He sure got what was coming to him.

And King of the Jews was some Zionist garbage.

 

Thank you for proving you are against freedom and liberty, and support leaders who led to the deaths of millions. You are a monster. You are on the ignore list.

 

I suggest some of you should re-read 1984. It's so surprisingly similar to today in enough ways to be quite frightening.

 

lame

Guess that's 3 or 4 of you now put Munter on ignore.

gee, shucks

deaths of millions? you mean the axis of Bush, Nixon, Johnson etc... yes, I am against that, glad we agree........

 

Neo-liberalism is a form of fascism, been saying it for years - but it's only recently that there's become a growing chorus against it.

Like I said, Orwell was actually PRO communist without realising it.

 

(flip that picture)
What happen when most of the wealth, capital and gold/diamonds are heading up to the top of hierarchy? A few things (you always must try to see the overal result of an ideology, a process, a system or change)

A large majority of lower class and poor people, and a smaller class of rich to very rich people, and the elite and rulers extremely wealthy and powerful (control over almost everything in the system)
The result of this current situation is more and more anger and a political fight is building up in most of the lower class of the population, so political change (radicalisation of more and more people)
All this eventually is leading to totalitarianism. There are a two historical labels, 'communism' and 'nazism', in the minds of millions Russian and German people antagonistic ideologies (only in the minds of millions), but fundamentally identically, because both systems have caused millions of deaths, had camps, strong symbolism, one strong leader figure (puppets of rulers) and so on.

George Orwell was clearly an insider who knew all the details of 'communism' and 'nazism', and by writing a book you not only get famous but also rich, and such books will cause fear (another way to get control over the masses), and what the book '1984' does is causing an awakening when you figure out that what is written in that book is currently happening. And most people want freedom, so they are going to 'wake up' (from the deception, from this artifically caused system) and start to resist, get in motion, start to fight politically and even on squares (via revolts), the result is mass organisation.
The only way to overcome this (artificial) '1984' system is stop fighting, stop movement, because when you do that you will never be part of an artifically caused political or revolutionary fight, you are not part of a mass organisation.
If a majority should stop their political fight, do not become part of a revolution, and don't move, '1984' and 'animal farm' will end one day.

The Egyptian, Ukrainian and Turkey and slowly but surely other populations all over the world are currently making historical errors (millions in the last century made too), by continueing their political and revolutionary fights and struggles (are all deception)
The world (Homo sapiens (us) in their ecosystem, in nature) is still too primitive, emotion and human psyche are very old so very powerful, thus the fatal flaw in humanity, so hundreds of millions of people make the same error without even notice it.

 

Capitalists have caused more deaths than any Communist regime. Think WW1 and WW2 for a start, plus of course all the murder in Vietnam, Iraq etc.

And you do realise that the percentage of people in US jails is currently higher than it was in SU under Stalin.

So, away with your tired old, bourgeoisie propaganda please.

 

An insider? - you mean from his gleanings of the Western, liberal press - I think not!

Do nothing? yeah right, like the cronies will just stop being cronies when they tire of it

 

Socialism has been around for a long time, but there has never been a fully socialist nation, just like there hasn't been a laissez faire economy either. But we have seen that elements of socialism can work. But you're right in that regard.