AR without pistol grip!!!!

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Ronstar, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    nope. MY BoR has no limits over my head. But what I don't understand is how is it you think that you have the Right to take away MY Rights?
     
  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    society has a right to limit behavior.
     
  3. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    nope, society has no Rights, only the Individual.
     
  4. arc_angel

    arc_angel New Member

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    And who decides what behavior to limit? You, me, muslim extremists, green peace activists, mothers and fathers, who decides? Why do they get to decide? How do they decide, based on fear, misunderstanding, hate, ignorance, convenience, what benefits them? What makes society correct especially sense societal opinions are highly fluid and ever changing. If we outlaw guns, and violence continues to kill thousands of people should we outlaw knives as has been done in the UK and Australia (I know they are not outlawed completely but if you don't have a very good reason your breaking the law). What comes after that when the violence continues, as it is continuing in London. Why should society be able to limit behavior when those beliefs that society holds are simply what is popular at the time. Society says gay couples should have equal rights as heterosexual couples, 100 years ago society was singing to a different tune. Kinda hypocritical of society to fight limits on behavior for a group of people who never physically harmed anyone then turn around and try to limit behavior of another group of people who have not physically harmed anyone. That is unless you believe the guilty by association mentality that people once believed about gays (all gays are pedophiles... all gun owners are homicidal maniacs). What makes society wrong now and not back then? What makes societal view right now? Based off what, what benefits the most people as Stewart Mill said? Then what happens to those who are not part of the "most people," we forget about them?

    What determines which behavior should be limited? Based off well being of people, financial, or convenience? Why should use of guns be limited? because people are killed? If it's about death then should we restrict cars or hotdogs (one of the most common cause of suffocation injuries in children).

    Then what guarantees are there that such ideas will really fix the problem? Why should people have their behavior limited based off some vague notion that it MIGHT possibly lower or help prevent such events from happening in the future? Even then should you have your behavior restricted because people who believe or partake in activities you enjoy break the law or snap and willingly hurt others? What the hell did you do wrong, you obeyed the law and acted responsibly. Is it your fault that they did that? Why should you be punished for something someone else did?

    If society has the right to limit behavior then what stops society from turning oppressive, or overreacting to a minor issue. How about underacting to a major issue simply because it doesn't affect them.

    So tell me Why should society have the right to limit anything? What makes society right, what makes you right and me wrong. Why should I give up rights to appease others?

    My point is that we need more than just popular opinion to create our laws and decide what is and is not acceptable behavior. There need to be rational limits devoid of emotional response to whatever issue. Society only has a privilege to gather and discuss legislation within the confines of the limits imposed upon it by the constitution. Otherwise people are at the whims of the popular opinions of society.
     
  5. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't the purpose of a bullet to kill? "Deadly & Destructive" is a selling point.
     
  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    society does.
     
  7. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    And who is "society"? I assume you understand that the majority of working, voting, tax paying members of American "society" are legal gun owners. Haven't I told you this before?
     
  8. arc_angel

    arc_angel New Member

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    You completely missed my point.
     
  9. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Not all bullets are sold with the purpose to kill. Target ammunition is designed to accurately punch holes in paper. Other ammunition is designed to be cheap. "Deadly and destructive" is not always a selling poing.

    http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/handgun/target.aspx
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    prove it
     
  11. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    Surely Ron, you are more dignified than to ask me to perform your 2nd. grade math for you.
    330M people in America. How many are too young to vote, felons, or otherwise not qualified?
    90M LEGAL gun owners. Legal means that we are old enough to vote, not convicted of a felony or judged to be incompetent, and American Citizens.
    Now, as for what bullets are designed to do....
    The vast majority of the Billions of rounds of center fire ammo that are fired in America every year are full metal jacket, copper plated, or cast lead. None of those are designed to kill.
    America goes through about 12 Billion rounds of .22LR every year. While a lot of that is hollow point, segmented, or otherwise designed to "kill", it is NOT designed to kill humans. .22 LR is simply not regarded as a "man killing" cartridge, because it is simply not very powerful. It does get used to shoot a lot of people every year, because it is very common, but the mortality rate from shootings by .22 LR is something less than 10%.
    The majority of center fire rifle cartridges used in America are designed for target use at longer ranges. Of those rifle bullets that ARE designed to kill, there are generally 2 types. One is for calibers of 6mm and below, and is designed for varmints that weigh no more than about 15 lbs. These bullets are highly frangible. They may or may not perform as well on humans as they do on varmints, because the bullets disintegrate immediately and completely. Under penetration would be the "problem". The other type is designed to expand and retain as much mass as possible on larger game. In general, these bullets don't perform well on humans because there is not enough mass in a person to induce adequate expansion of the bullet. It passes through before it attains the designed killing power.
    This stuff is NOT hard to learn!
     

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