Are soldiers really serving their country?

That is the type of bull(*)(*)(*)(*) that perpetuates many of the myths.

 

Never call a Marine a soldier...

I was an airman.
10 yrs. active
9 yrs. USAF reserves

In answer to your question about where "loyalty" is placed.

Here's the officer's oath of office for all branches:

“I, (state your name), having been appointed a (rank) in the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

In terms of deployments involving combat support for U.S. sponsored conflicts...ironically I went in fighting the Iraqis and went out...fighting the Iraqis.

You do a job, and frankly I hold no personal grudges against say Muslims as a whole...speaking as a non-combat veteran. I've often heard of Vietnam era veterans, or WWII and Korean war veterans having the same sentiments...but I certainly do not speak for them.

"So help me God" is now optional...

 

"Terrorism" = US/NATO resistance movement.

 

"Enemy" is a very temporal question. Have you not had a good friend that you later hated, or the reverse?

Personally, nobody is my enemy unless they make it so. The Soviet Union was an adversary, but never an enemy, and I never hated them. The Japanese were allies, then an enemy, then an ally again. That has nothing to do with me, those are politicla issues. But you also have to realize that for the most part, we do not hate who we are fighting with.

 

I don't get into these debates much because there like IgnoranceIsBliss already said, there aren't enough REASONABLE people here to actually debate with.

This is where I take offense. No one, I repeat, NO ONE, comes back from war the same, no matter who is on the right side. It's people like you who put stigmas on our Military personnel, when you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Conscience? I have one, but I don't, and never did question it. I would do the exact same thing all over again even if it meant having the same difficulties when returning home. It's nothing to do with an itchy trigger finger, we actually have more discipline and stringent ROE's than ever before.

You, my friend, are ignorant to the fullest extent.

 

I took an oath, but my loyalty lies first and foremost with my brothers, whom which took the same oath I did. We swore to uphold the constitution that was fought so hard for in 1787. We then put our trust in the Government to do the right thing, and we do the job we committed to.

I do not hate Muslims, I actually had respect for many over there who stood up against the Taliban and created a relatively safe zone (the Hazzarans come to mind). But no matter where I am sent, or where I am, if someone threatens my life or my brothers, we will fight for each other.

 

This is why so many of the idiots now I simply ignore. They have no facts, only repeat things they have been told by others with absolutely no verification.

The minute they can discuss things like human beings and with some facts, I am open to a discussion. But when they are bigoted racists who only spit out lies without proof and deny anything verified back, they are not worth my time.

 

Death camps? Persecuting does not always mean deathcamps.

No, in Egypt the support of Mubarak. You know, that oppressive dictator which had America's support until they realized he was done? Remember him?

Your country is an ally of one of the most oppressive regimes on this planet today, the Saudi Royal family.

Thousands killed in Afghanistan. Thousands killed in Iraq, Abu Ghraib. Military occupation of both countries, neither of which ever was nor will be a threat to your country.

Supporting the Bahrain regime as it cracks down on protesters.

Drone strikes in Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Muslim communities in the Phillipines. There was also some in Somalia.

Supporting Libya rebels and civil war in Libya. Trying the same in Syria.

Indirectly threatening Iran with war over it's nuclear program.

Supporting "Israel" and the oppression of Gaza, the worlds largest open-air prison.

How about arresting some people, falsely, and throwing them into Git-mo?

This is propoganda to you?

Oh, and you didn't answer the question: Do you think it is okay that America feels it can kill whoever it wants, and justify it by calling the victims "terrorists"?

 

All that aside...

Iran openly threatens the nation of Israel, with extermination...hence nuclear proliferation will not be tolerated by free nations...or at least the United States...

Iran has brought it upon themselves...with it's extremist rhetoric.

In this post 9/11 era...all threats are taken seriously to both the United States and to her allies.

 

So there is some variety in the answers given but the one point that seems to remain a constant is the lack of indiscriminate hate which is very good to hear.

As an anarchist though I wonder why you allow yourselves and your comrades in arms to a certain degree be put in situations which could in the end could cause more harm then it could stop?

Is it indifference?

Is it loyalty to the elected officials supported by the constitution?

Can it sometimes be a lack of knowledge going into the situations?

I'm sorry if I've offended you at all so far I'm really just trying to get some straight answers from people with a totally different view from my own. Now I personally believe armed action should only be taken if directly threatened and taking action should be determined by the individuals involved. Now perhaps I'm spineless but I would always prefer to avoid conflict that could result in great harm unless I had decided that I had to intervene. The possibility of killing or dying because of an oath bothers me greatly especially if the purpose of fighting is highly controversial. I feel that the wars in Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan, and the second Iraq war all had better solutions then those committed to. I also don't think America was profoundly threatened by Gaddafi, the ICU, the Taliban, or Saddam. I'm bothered that from my perspective the US armed forces seem to serve the office of the president which has even occasionally acted with disregard for the constitution. It doesn't seem any of you specifically feel loyalty to them over the constitution but you perform his commands first and foremost. But perhaps I'm being biased because I have very little faith in politicians and honestly I'm bothered by those who do.

 

If I may...
a stanza from Alfred, Lord Tennyson's
"The Charge Of The Light Brigade"

A poem which memorializes events in the Battle of Balaclava, on October 25, 1854.

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Roughly translating a brilliant poem: A soldier's job is not to reason why...a soldier's job is but to do...and die.

True in 1854, and true in 2012.

 

Ugh... not this again....

Iran has repeated, repeatedly, that it will attack back whoever attacks them. It is actually "Israel" and the United States doing the threatening, and Iran joins in on the childish games saying they will respond to any attacks.

How many "Israelis" and Americans have the Iranians killed? How many Iranian nuclear scientists have been assassinated?

Which country is currently holding a million people in an oppressive environment, and not allowing for any regulations on its nuclear program, nor will admit to its own nuclear arsenal? Not Iran.

Which country is involved in two wars in neighboring countries to Iran, and blowing people up with drone strikes all over the region? Not Iran.

Which countries have killed thousands of people in the past decade? Not Iran.

Which country has used it's nuclear missiles before? Certainly not Iran.

But Iran is the threat to the world, right? lol... yeah.

 

That's what their constitutional oath implicitly requires, unless the command is unconstitutional.

 

Stop hijacking the thread. Each one of those issues could be a thread unto itself.

 

So... I cannot talk about the US army in a thread about the US army if it does not fit your views of the US army?

I did not bring up the subject, nor Iran.

And I did not force you to read my post.

 

This is excactly how they think about us.

No. Where is our advantage when we are hated around the globe? Where is even a financial advantage for the US to spend 600 billion USD each year to be able to permanently bomb the globe. Aren´t there better possibilities to invest?

 

And that's how the Japs and Germans thought of us in WW2. What's yer point?

We're not hated because of how our military personnel conduct themselves, but because most people love lies.

 

Really? You think, hmm for example that soldier that massacred 16 people and burnt their bodies a while back, did not result in hatred among Afghans towards the US army?

 

Sure it did. I suspect the thousands of civilians the Taliban have delliberately robbed, tortured, and murdered made most Afghans hate them too.

 

It shouldn't, because the US military doesn't tolerate such atrocities; yet it will all the same, because the Afghans are held in thrall by hatemongers who think like you.

 

Pointless. To a racist, the only thing that matters is the target of their hatred.

 

Really? Strange, but I walked down public streets in the Middle East, without any fear whatsoever.

And no, I did not have a gun. Everybody I met was friendly, and some even went out of their way to come over and thank me. The biggest problem when my buddy and I stopped at a coffee shop was actualy paying for our coffee.

And that has pretty much been my experience in every country I have had the honour of visiting.

It's kinda funny, because I hear so often about this "universal hatred", but have never experienced it. Other then from certain segments of the US population.

I honetly would feel safer walking through many areas of the Middle East wearing an American Flag, then I would walking through San Francisco in uniform. And that is a sad thing to realize.

 

I have a question in response:

If you hear about a (insert race or nationality) man who rapes 5 women, does that make you automatically hate all (same race or nationality)?

I do not know about you, but I do not think that way. I do not seperate people into "us" and "them". And I do not care what country, race, or religion a person is from or belongs to. And I certainly do not lump all of those groups together.

I find such thinking simple, childish, and idiotic. And it normally is only a justification for racists, of which I want absolutely nothing to do with. In fact, I think the only group that I can claim that I honestly hate are racists of any form.

I do not hate Muslims for 9/11. I do not hate blacks for the crimes a few individuals did against me. I do not hate anybody at all, other then at a personal level if an individual did a crime against myself or others.

I do not hate everybody else in that group, unless like the NAZI's, it is a group of racists and haters.

 

That's circular logic "A soldier does and dies because soldiers do and die." Now that could be said for something like say "A shovel digs because a shovel is designed to dig", but I'm asking why not what soldiers do and that reasoning is far to simplistic for people. Unless what you're trying to say is soldiers can't question what they're told and they should be apathetic to their purpose and reason. But I don't believe that's true that's a cop out there are always reasons for choices. People aren't simply tools they are a multifaceted being even the most broken people fight for something even if it is just survival.

 

and if the commander continually commits unconstitutional acts through others besides yourself are you still bound to his command?