Attention all Soldiers and Veterans

politicalcenter · Jun 4, 2020

I also live near a firing range used by local law enforcement. Some days they pop of rounds all day long. They hit what they aim at.

Bowerbird · Jun 4, 2020

ImNotOliver said: ↑

I’ve been monitoring the protests from various cities. There are now protests in 140 American cities and sympathetic marches in dozens of foreign cities.

In most averaged sized cities, during the day the marchers are quite peaceful, almost a celebratory attitudes, as people feel comfort and excitement in the show of support. And they number in the many thousands. In the bigger cities there are as many as sixty thousand.

Watching the video feeds from several different cities, the same pattern kept emerging. As the day, and daylight came to a close, the crowds quickly thinned down until only a trickle remained. Then more and more people began to arrive until there were a few hundred. Most seemed intent on confronting the police. After all the protests are about police misconduct. I think that the police and the criminal justice system have long been in the habit of abusing citizens. They abuse black men the most. In every city in America there have been efforts to hold the police accountable, to create citizen oversight committees. The criminal justice system and their right wing allies have resisted to the greatest degree. Even in those cities that have managed to establish citizen oversight, that oversight carries no real authority.

But then, of these few hundred, a small portion where just out to cause destruction. Often times a lone person can be seen, away from the action, just walking along, breaking windows with a hammer as he walked.

Then there was a third group, which seemed to be rather organized as they broke into and looted store after store. There are plenty of videos from places like LA, Chicago, and New York of what seems to be dozens of people pouring into stores and running out with arm loads of loot. It seemed as if athletic footwear stores were hit particularly hard.

That conservatives seem to be obsessing over the violence and looting, and blaming it all on Democrats, may be an indication that they are not getting a balanced view of the news. I think it has a lot of them checking their ammo supply.

The pattern though, had been that over time the peaceful protests have increased, in number and in size, while the violence at night has dwindled, as has the looting. It only makes sense as the police have been arresting the violent offenders, often with the assistance of the peaceful protestors. And passions have been dying down.
Click to expand...

And I think that is more due to the basic reasonableness of people than any fear of military intervention

You might enjoy this

Bowerbird · Jun 4, 2020

politicalcenter said: ↑

Just about every white male I know owns a gun or 5. Most black males are also armed. These men would be hard pressed to use a gun on another person. Bit if they did they would be deadly.... stone cold serious.
Click to expand...

Not them I am worrying about

It is the “internet warrior” of which we have a plethora on this board

The ones who buy the guns and fantasise about being a superman/Batman hybrid wonderkid able to right wrongs with a single bullet

garyd · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

Long long stretch

One can disagree with someone and still support them

Trump though is handling this so badly that a civil war is all but inevitable
Click to expand...

No more of a stretch than the one you're making...

HereWeGoAgain · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

If the Military is brought in how will you prevent another Kent State?

The military have already acted against peaceful protestors

All it would take is for one of the Boogaloo Bois to start shooting at the military and you would have the civil war they have been trying to promote
Click to expand...

Military leaders are speaking out against trump. They are making it clear that the military does not stand behind him.

garyd · Jun 4, 2020

NightOwl said: ↑

Geez what a load of hysterical nonsense.
Click to expand...

I second that opinion.

jay runner · Jun 4, 2020

HereWeGoAgain said: ↑

General Mattis told you today who is your enemy. You swore to protect the Constitution, not donald trump. Remember your oath to protect the Constitution with your life. When you took that oath, did you mean it or not? Just as we who despise trump have been saying all along, trump is an enemy of the Constitution.

That makes trump your personal enemy. You swore it with your life.

"I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad."
- General James Mattis; former Sec of Defense under trump
Click to expand...

Fxxk Mattis. He is only creating a diversion for the deep state. Fxxk Mattis and the gyrocopter he flew in on.

Jestsayin · Jun 4, 2020

HereWeGoAgain said: ↑

General Mattis told you today who is your enemy. You swore to protect the Constitution, not donald trump. Remember your oath to protect the Constitution with your life. When you took that oath, did you mean it or not? Just as we who despise trump have been saying all along, trump is an enemy of the Constitution.

That makes trump your personal enemy. You swore it with your life.

"I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad."
- General James Mattis; former Sec of Defense under trump
Click to expand...

You do have options, Planes still leave for other countries every day.
Reading posts from those in Australia, Canada, France, and Germany, they all tell us they live in a perfect world.
So much so in fact, they feel the need to constantly tell us here how to run our terrible country.

Crownline · Jun 4, 2020

HereWeGoAgain said: ↑

General Mattis told you today who is your enemy. You swore to protect the Constitution, not donald trump. Remember your oath to protect the Constitution with your life. When you took that oath, did you mean it or not? Just as we who despise trump have been saying all along, trump is an enemy of the Constitution.

That makes trump your personal enemy. You swore it with your life.

"I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad."
- General James Mattis; former Sec of Defense under trump
Click to expand...

You’re getting mighty close to this.

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486, June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

LogNDog · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

Yeah! Otherwise we might be able to change the minds of........
Click to expand...

I think you are probably pretty convinced so no changing your mind. I am glad we agree.

Bowerbird · Jun 4, 2020

LogNDog said: ↑

I think you are probably pretty convinced so no changing your mind. I am glad we agree.
Click to expand...

Nah! All you have to do to change my mind is use logic and research

Pity so few are able to do that preferring instead to si Li post either “tds”!”orange man bad” or “Obama did it !!!”

557 · Jun 4, 2020

HereWeGoAgain said: ↑

Military leaders are speaking out against trump. They are making it clear that the military does not stand behind him.
Click to expand...

Do you know a lot of people in the military? Generals are 99.44% politician. When they are retired generals it isn’t uncommon for them to become 100% political. Mattis for president!

My point is Mattis does not speak for the military. His political opinions are no more relevant than anyone else’s.

TOG 6 · Jun 4, 2020

HereWeGoAgain said: ↑

General Mattis told you today who is your enemy. You swore to protect the Constitution, not donald trump. Remember your oath to protect the Constitution with your life. When you took that oath, did you mean it or not? Just as we who despise trump have been saying all along, trump is an enemy of the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Your opinion doesn't matter, especially to the people you supposedly speak to.

kriman · Jun 4, 2020

HereWeGoAgain said: ↑

General Mattis told you today who is your enemy. You swore to protect the Constitution, not donald trump. Remember your oath to protect the Constitution with your life. When you took that oath, did you mean it or not? Just as we who despise trump have been saying all along, trump is an enemy of the Constitution.

That makes trump your personal enemy. You swore it with your life.
Click to expand...

I respect General Mattis. However, his is only one opinion of many. I do not need to be told by General Mattis whether Trump is my personal enemy. I could probably find an equal number saying the liberals are violating the Constitution and are my personal enemy.

I choose not to make either my personal enemy.

fmw · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

But there is still more guns per capital now than there was then
Click to expand...

People didn't need guns as much in those days.

And more inflammatory rhetoric around guns and freedoms
Click to expand...

That is one of the characteristics of politics.

jay runner · Jun 4, 2020

TOG 6 said: ↑

Your opinion doesn't matter, especially to the people you supposedly speak to.
Click to expand...

I decide.

jay runner · Jun 4, 2020

557 said: ↑

Do you know a lot of people in the military? Generals are 99.44% politician. When they are retired generals it isn’t uncommon for them to become 100% political. Mattis for president!

My point is Mattis does not speak for the military. His political opinions are no more relevant than anyone else’s.
Click to expand...

He's sort of a Cardi B

LogNDog · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

Nah! All you have to do to change my mind is use logic and research

Pity so few are able to do that preferring instead to si Li post either “tds”!”orange man bad” or “Obama did it !!!”
Click to expand...

Pity that some insist on having double standards but I digress since I never said anything about Obama or "orange man bad". Guilty conscience or just deflecting through projection or maybe just a bad attempt at self victimization?

FreshAir · Jun 4, 2020

FatBack said: ↑

I hope you never get close enough to act out on your rehetoric or are you just trying to rouse others?
Click to expand...

yep, said the same when Trump said these things about our last President

want Trump gone... vote in November

FreshAir · Jun 4, 2020

politicalcenter said: ↑

We just have an internet now and more opinions are expressed in public than in the sixties.
Click to expand...

and more people pretend to be the worst of the other side in order to cause division, especially other countries, and we're even seeing white nationalists do this now

Lucifer · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

And I think that is more due to the basic reasonableness of people than any fear of military intervention

You might enjoy this

Click to expand...

Great video!!!

jay runner · Jun 4, 2020

FreshAir said: ↑

yep, said the same when Trump said these things about our last President

want Trump gone... vote in November

Click to expand...

Trump was not elected to unify the country. Trump was elected to make clear the deep rooted political division in the country.

HereWeGoAgain · Jun 4, 2020

""Whatever Trump's goal in conducting his visit, he laid bare his disdain for the rights of peaceful protest in this country, gave succor to the leaders of other countries who take comfort in our domestic strife, and risked further politicizing the men and women of our armed forces," - Former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sickening-retired-military-officer-spoke-trump/story?id=71074748

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper distanced himself from President Trump on Wednesday, saying the use of active-duty forces to quash unrest across the nation is unnecessary at this stage, hours before his predecessor, Jim Mattis, excoriated the president for working to divide the country.

The comments captured the extraordinary tension that has been building among current and former Pentagon officials since Monday, when Trump threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act to use active-duty troops in U.S. cities and Esper referred to American cities as a “battlespace
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...8dad2e-a59e-11ea-8681-7d471bf20207_story.html

"The admiral’s words followed similar commentary, mainly on Twitter, from retired Gen. Martin Dempsey, another former JCS chairman; retired Gen. Michael Hayden, former director of the CIA and NSA; and retired Gen. Tony Thomas, former head of Special Operations Command.

Active-duty officers are also beginning to speak out. In a memo to his fellow service leaders, obtained by Air Force Times, Gen. David Goldfein, the Air Force chief of staff, denounced the death of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis police. He noted that the Air Force is “not immune to the spectrum of racial prejudice,” and urged them, “as leaders and as airmen,” to “confront it head on.” The memo wasn’t an explicit critique of Trump’s approach to the demonstrations, but it was a clear stab at dissociation from the president’s approach.

Goldfein wrote his memo after Kaleth Wright, chief master sergeant of the Air Force, the top enlisted leader of the service, who is black, posted a statement—after receiving Goldfein’s blessing to do so—identifying himself with Floyd and other victims of police brutality. Noting that the Air Force is wrestling with “its own demons” on racism, urging his fellow airmen “to do what you think is right for the country, for your community … for every Black man in this country who could end up like George Floyd.”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/trump-commanders-esper-mullen-miller.html

jay runner · Jun 4, 2020

A Canadian deplorable's opinion:

Pred · Jun 4, 2020

Bowerbird said: ↑

Too easy though, in troubled times, for someone to do the wrong thing

Remember there are more guns than in the sixties and all it would take is a “they’re takin’ our freedumb’ armed idiot to start shooting at the military and escalate it into a massacre
Click to expand...

But you understand the national guard was only offered as a way to protect innocent people from the dangerous looters and rioters and ANTFA anarchists. What does that have to do with the racist, bigoted comment you made?

Log in or Sign up

Attention all Soldiers and Veterans

politicalcenter Well-Known Member

Bowerbird Well-Known Member

Bowerbird Well-Known Member

garyd Well-Known Member

HereWeGoAgain Banned

garyd Well-Known Member

jay runner Banned

Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

Crownline Banned at Members Request

LogNDog Well-Known Member

Bowerbird Well-Known Member

557 Well-Known Member

TOG 6 Well-Known Member

kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

fmw Well-Known Member

jay runner Banned

jay runner Banned

LogNDog Well-Known Member

FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

Lucifer Well-Known Member

jay runner Banned

HereWeGoAgain Banned

jay runner Banned

Pred Well-Known Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Attention all Soldiers and Veterans

politicalcenter Well-Known Member

Bowerbird Well-Known Member

Bowerbird Well-Known Member

garyd Well-Known Member

HereWeGoAgain Banned

garyd Well-Known Member

jay runner Banned

Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

Crownline Banned at Members Request

LogNDog Well-Known Member

Bowerbird Well-Known Member

557 Well-Known Member

TOG 6 Well-Known Member

kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

fmw Well-Known Member

jay runner Banned

jay runner Banned

LogNDog Well-Known Member

FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

Lucifer Well-Known Member

jay runner Banned

HereWeGoAgain Banned

jay runner Banned

Pred Well-Known Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches