Authoritarianism

Prevention of genocide is not addressed in the US Constitution. In fact, the US government practiced genocide against the Native Americans, and to some degree against the Philippines.

 

Agreed. I’m trying to get a feel for when you think military might should be applied to ensure the common defense of the country. Do we simply maintain strict isolationism until the US is physically attacked within our borders?

 

An excellent question, and an excellent starting point for good discussion.

There is a happy medium somewhere between the extremes regarding isolationism on the one hand and being the world's policeman on the other.

I tend towards isolation, but understand that we do not live alone on this planet. I like Jefferson's thoughts: honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.

 

Thanks. I’m for the happy medium as well, it just seems it’s hard to determine what that is until after the fact. I’m sure you would agree it is the false or misleading information we are given to justify action that makes us want to always err on the side of isolationism now.

And I suppose there aren’t many politicians who want to go down in history next to Chamberlain et al.

Would you say in many cases of intervention it isn’t that we intervened, but the methods and timetables used that were the problem?

 

First this opinion...

Then a short time later...

So make up your mind. Is disinformation a problem or isn't it?

 

The problem is people’s inability to think critically about information. Tobacco is not a problem. Setting it on fire and inhaling the smoke is the problem. For a smoker, one could say tobacco is a problem. But is it the problem?

The fact disinformation exists ought to make us cautious. It ought to make us question things we are told. I suppose it’s easier for most people to advocate for some authority to vet information so they don’t have to be the responsible party. But that’s the same as a smoker saying tobacco is the problem.

My mind is made up. All information should be available in a free society. It’s our responsibility to figure it out and act accordingly. When a source repeatedly disseminates erroneous information that source warrants strict scrutiny and careful thought before action is taken on the information.

Yes, that source, too....I know what’s coming.

 

Now was that so difficult?

 

I’m sorry you misunderstood today’s post on isolationism. Or the previous one you quoted. In context they were both quite clear and consistent on misinformation.

 

No misunderstanding on my part.
First you write this...

Then you write this...

False and/or misleading information is a problem period.
That's what I tried to make clear to you in a previous post where you simply dismissed the idea
saying..."Personally I don’t see disinformation as the problem." "Disinformation is nothing new."

 

If you would concentrate on my response it would be clear to you. Disinformation is not the core problem. You couldn’t eliminate it even if you wanted to.

Misinformation should make us engage our brains. Which was what I made clear in the post you keep quoting.

It’s ok. By your previous response of bolding my response and asking if that was hard, it’s clear the focus is still myopic. The predictability of responses is appreciated but disappointing as well. My suspicions were certainly confirmed. Concepts of critical thought and skepticism of authority are not the issue yet for many. So it goes.

For sake of discussion, how would you solve your “problem” of existence of misinformation?

 

I'm undecided as to your last question, and I guess that would be the crux of the matter.

In real time we see our efforts in Bolivia have been another overthrow of a legitimate government, just as we are trying to do in Venezuela with less success.

I'm sure a hypothetical could be constructed for a benign intervention, with the best of intentions, but real life experiences show that good intentions do not forgive crimes against other nations.

 

Can’t really disagree with much of what you say here. Except to add that Chamberlain etc. also had good intentions. And that hindsight is 20/20.

 

Utter nonsense they fully understood smaller government would mean that the occasional person of that ilk would have far less means at his disposal to wreak havoc than he would with larger less limited government. They also saw clearly that you cannot prevent that sort of thing from happening long term so the best method was to limit the tools with which he had to work.

 

Look again....

Your doctor says to you.."I'm sorry sir, but you are dying of cancer."

And you reply..."Personally I don't see cancer as the problem. I see the intentional educational format producing a society unable to determine if something is accurate or not as the problem. We are past the point of no return now. Nobody can think critically about anything anymore. Cancer is nothing new."

And the doctor replies..."Well sir, I can see you've thought this through. No use wasting your time with cancer treatment. No use researching something that is not a problem.
Sure glad we got intellectuals like you around Mr. 557. Live long and prosper."

 

Disinformation will always exist. I’m sorry you haven’t the tools to deal with it on your own. If you had an argument you would answer my question of what you propose to do about the existence of disinformation. Moaning about something you don’t have any intention of addressing with solutions is not productive.

If you want to post my reply you ought to quote it, not post a corrupted version. I understand why you have to change it though. You can’t respond intellectually to my analogy.

I am glad we have you around from time to time to validate my points. In this case, you’ve validated my assertion that education has failed in producing citizens capable of dealing with misinformation on their own through critical thought. Cheers.

I honestly would like to hear your solution to the existence of disinformation. You don’t like education, so what do you propose?

 

God you are slow. Read your post again…..

To address the problem, you first have to admit disinformation is a problem. You can’t admit something that stares you in the face. But you yourself are a perfect example of your idea that education does not produce intelligence. Cheers.

I have not corrupted any of your quotes. And I was being sarcastic when I referred to you as an intellectual. Where is your analogy? Can you point it out? It must be buried somewhere in your usual verbosity.

You do realize your assertion includes yourself, most of the people here and those in Washington. I’ll borrow one of your creations here….”Moaning about something you don’t have any intention of addressing with solutions is not productive.”

Are you actually saying that you want a solution to problem that in your opinion doesn’t exist?
To top it all off, the so called leader of this country holds the world record for most lies told in recorded history and he’s just getting started. But you don’t see that as a problem…..as long as it don’t effect your bank account. Maybe that's the problem..

 

Not necessary. I know what it says.

Disinformation is not the problem. Period. I am addressing the real problem. I support education that gives people the ability to deal with misinformation. I appreciate you being consistent and predictable in your default to ad hom when you are unable to deal with the subject matter at hand.

Sure. Here you go.

Incidentally, this was also the post where you took the bait and fell into the “Trump trap”. It’s common for people to be so focused on that bait they miss the rest of the content of a post.


You can’t address the tobacco analogy so you come back with a cancer analogy that is weak enough to be considered fallacious. Critical thought and education are relevant to dealing with misinformation. The relationship between tobacco and it’s use/misuse and misinformation and it’s use/misuse have commonality. Lack of critical thought through poor education is irrelevant to cancer diagnosis. That constitutes a weak analogy.

I could add detail to what you started with and turn it into a stronger analogy, but it would then support my position.

If your intention is to belittle a forum member by inferring they are not an intellectual, you’re on the wrong track. I do love intellectual arguments. I love to question everything and come to my own conclusions rather than just ascribe to the opinions of others. I prefer thoughtful discussion over emotional reaction. I suppose I’m into a lot of things the dictionary definitions of “intellectual” include. But I’d rather not be labeled as such. You can get as far with me by calling me a dumb farmer as with inferring I’m not an “intellectual”. I’ll stand by my arguments either way.

Nah, not myself. I am happy to use the wonderful tool of critical thought. It is how we ought to address misinformation. I have the solution to the real problem. Are you ever going to share yours? (Pssst—-I’m pretty sure I know why you are hesitant to do so).

Is that what I asked? I would like you to demonstrate you have really thought this through by sharing your solutions to your problem. If you are correct, and misinformation is the problem, surely you have some ideas on how to deal with it. You have a problem with misinformation. How would you solve it? I have shared the solution to the real problem. It’s education.

Is that statement factual? I would love to see proof. You really ought to avoid the Trump trap in the future. It’s making you behave like you accuse him of behaving.

How does my bank account factor into any of this?

 

So you would solve the tobacco problem by switching to vaping? How is giving people more education going to help? It hasn't helped you. You still talk out both ends at the same time. Look....

But you still insist misinformation is not a problem. Here's another one....

You say misinformation is a problem one minute and deny it the next. Is that how you wish to educate people? To think like you do?

Well how about one of your own posts.....

Perhaps you can show someone else with more recorded lies than Trump?

I don't know what a Trump trap is.

You saying you have some other reason to want Trump in office?[/QUOTE]

 

Tobacco isn’t a problem. You aren’t paying attention to what I post. Do you know what an analogy is? My assumption that you understood analogy may have been assuming too much.

Misinformation is not the problem. I’m absolutely correct in this statement. Misinformation and errors are ignored at times because people are not equipped with the skills to deal with them. Most can’t even spot them. That’s my whole point. The problem is lack of education and critical thinking skills.

Nowhere in the post you quote do I say misinformation is the problem. You are making that up. But maybe if you quote it again....

As I said before, existence of false information should sharpen our wits. It should make us skeptical when sources have a history of providing false information. There is no conflict between my posts.

You think you need to point out the fact you were being facetious by referring to me as intellectual, yet you can’t spot sarcasm yourself? It was a gentle way to remind another PF member to think things through before flinging goofy numbers around like that. Suppose my post was serious. We still know many data points on that list are exaggerations exactly like this from you.

As I’ve been known to point out from time to time, progressives are not particularly self aware.

As far as I know, running tabulations on any other person’s lies has never existed. Certainly not on every human who exists or has existed in the past. You made the claim, you back it up.

Obviously. As I’ve been known to point out from time to time, progressives are not particularly self aware.

Do I want Trump in office? Did I vote for the man? Countless times I’ve advocated on this forum for Democrats to put up a serious challenger in 2020. This Trump business is bizarre. Why are you so fixated on the guy? It leads you into traps.

Have you thought of any solutions to your problem of misinformation?

Happy New Year!

 

Misinformation drives this country.

When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

 

According to 557 misinformation is not a problem. Perhaps he's misinformed.

 

I've told you many times. To solve a problem you first have to admit it's a problem.
Is misinformation a problem or not?

 

Oh, so you admit misinformation is not the problem. Your inability to provide solutions confirms that fact. If you accepted the idea misinformation is a problem you would provide solutions.

No, misinformation is not a problem. People not having the ability to deal correctly with misinformation is the problem.

 

Yes a terrible problem is misinformation. And a dishonest leader makes that problem even worse.

So now you are providing misinformation. If every problem included a solution, we would have no cancer...no disease at all in fact.
The lack of a solution does not mean a problem does not exist. So why do you find it necessary to lie about that fact?

Yes... so you keep saying. But you have provided nothing to support your assumption.
You keep saying you want to educate people and that is your solution. What people are you referring to and how do you know they lack education?
Try to respond without lying this time.

 

Nah, misinformation isn’t the problem. The tobacco plant isn’t a problem.
Which dishonest leader? They are legion.

Gonna go hardcore ad hom now eh? Cool. Cancer has solutions. Some cancers we haven’t discovered the solution for yet. Doesn’t mean solutions don’t exist. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t search for solutions and hypothesize possible solutions. Don’t be such a defeatist. The solution to the problem of inability to deal with misinformation is simple and has been in common use for ages. It’s education.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim I’m lying? You won’t get any further with that than with the “intellectual” sarcasm.

Anyone who does not have the ability to deal with misinformation is lacking in education. That’s not a pejorative statement. It’s just reality. Say a dude tells you a diet consisting of only simple carbohydrates is the most healthful diet. Do you begin eating nothing but twinkies and Pepsi? Why not? If you do, and develop diabetes and your foot falls off, is the problem twinkies? Is the problem the guy who gave you dietary advice? Is the problem the bad advice in and of itself?

Let’s say nobody tells you to eat nothing but simple carbohydrates. You come up with that theory on your own because you like twinkies and Pepsi and you don’t know the human body needs amino acids, minerals, vitamins, essential fatty acids, soluble and insoluble fiber, etc. So your dadgum foot falls off. Now who/what do you blame? What’s the problem? Donald Trump? Misinformation?

What would have saved your foot from ending up looking like Adam Sandler’s in “Mr. Deeds”? A different president? Or could nothing have saved it because some things just don’t have solutions?