Boeing 737 Max, software problems and Indian engineers.

Yeah. I think the real problem was at a much higher pay scale where they decide to make it an option to eliminate the single point of failure in the original design.

 

When you are dealing with the lives of the public you better be damned sure you have the best engineers the world can produce checking and rechecking all test results.

 

I was referring to IT outsourcing and for the point I ve made about 'communication issue'. Filipinos have better English speaking skills, also by gestures and mimic they are close to us.
Nodding to an Indian, he will believe something is wrong, negative, a NO. They are totally different in the way they communicate.

Your premise is false.
First, most of bad software or bugs are a result of a screwed workflow or the management's inability like pushing deadlines, not dealing with technical debt, and so on. Building software is not like building cars. It is a highly creative and abstract process and most managers dont get it.
Second, QA should be Boeing's part. If the upper management outsourced QA to indians, that is a monumental bad decision because we all know that is of quality for an Indian is not generally for an american/german.
3rd, the upper management knew about the problems and did coverups

This is all Boeing's fault.
Heads should roll in the upper management but we all know they wont go jail, they will protect each other because they are the big boys having the corporate power, and IF they will be fire someone for public score points, it will be with some millions in package compensation like usual. Corporations are big, ugly, messed up, intertwined, corrupt institutions with defunct hierarchies and processes.

 

"Boeing 737 Max, software problems and Indian engineers."

I see this happening in many American corps, they outsource to India and development quality drops

.... but they are cheap.. who cares about quality

 

it's not the nationality, it's the lack of loyalty to the company as they are not a part of the company\country and they are not a tight group, they are a bunch of interchangeable widgets rather then life long developers that works for a corporation, they lack the same loyalty and drive to improve the product

someone of India nationality that works in the USA for a corp will have better quality then basically a temp employee from overseas that is hired to work for many different corps

 

Hmmm? India + $9 = Cheap foreign labor kills. Shame on Boeing. It deserves to be destroyed. That is the essence of his btch. However, logically, being foreign, let alone being Indian, and being frugal are not vices that lead to plane crashes. They are totally irrelevant. Furthermore, nobody in this thread has identified who it is that is stating the code failed, or a linked to a report listing it as the cause of the plane crashes. It leads me to conclude the poster is anti-foreigner, anti-immigrant, anti-capitalist, anti-Boeing, and idealistically, anti-American--except when he is referring to an accidental place of birth, and a geographical location--brainless bigot.

 

I see, Boeing builds planes that crash because that's how they make money, all they care about is profit. And everyone knows there's no virtue in profit. That about about capture your depth of thought?

 

My take also, so far. But even if it turns out to be the case that the software code was poorly written and is the fundamental cause of the plane crashes, being foreign and being frugal is not the cause. As a matter of fact, one of the rational principles the human mind lives by is to get the best product for the best price that satisfies the requirement needed.

 

That's a belief not supported by logic or evidence. And no matter how hard one believes, squares cannot be round, and faith will not reattach a decapitated head.

 

I suppose the $280B deal with Indian Air wasn't a factor in having to use HCL.. oh wait... who am I kidding.. Of course is was. The quality of HCL products is akin to suggesting there is quality in Yugo cars... It's like an oxymoron. HCL delivers cheap. That's about it. Boeing should have known better. They might as well have used Univ of Washington comp sci interns...

 

This is still a smear--they used plane crashing software to sell planes. In other words, they selfishly used software that crashes planes in order to make $280 Billion in the sales of those same plane models.

Well, So far 1Billions lost, and counting, planes not delivered, and stock price crashed. All because they used plane-crashing software to make a buck. Wait. That's illogical. Something's not jiving.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...he-first-look-at-the-costs-of-the-max-crisis/

The only evidence offered to explain this? The assertion that cheap foreign labor is the cause. Just not buying it.

And who says HCL is Yugo, beside you? Trade publications? Investigative Journals? Court Documents? BBB? Anything?

 

can only report what I see personally in real life and that is what is happening in many many corporations right now

development has slowed down due to the bureaucracy of foreign outsourcing big time

 

Boeing is utterly corrupt. Most corporations are not like Boeing. Is that clear enough?

 

Accusation with no substantiation. I’m still puzzled how one makes money selling planes that crash?

 

As others have said don't lay blame with India and those workers. There are plenty of people in India skilled enough for that job. Plus Boeing needed to follow up on those results and to testing. Another fail.

Just like outsourcing manufacturing to China. If a company makes sure quality component are used and there is good quality control, China can make great stuff. The problem comes when a company wants a low price point and doesn't really care about the product. As long as they make money.

 

So Boeing is a rarity in cutting corners over safety? HA! Look at most automakers. They do the same thing. That's why they have "bean counters". Those guys measure the money being saved cutting corners against settling lawsuits with those injured/killed. How about Dow chemical? Monsanto finally got burned on a cancer lawsuit. I guarantee Monsanto did not see that coming.

Certainly most corporation don't operate like that, but huge ones with massive amounts of money on the line weigh the cost benefit of cutting corners. Boeing just happens to be a company that makes aircraft and when one of those goes down it's all over the news.

 

I’m going to share a bit of experience that I encountered myself at my work place.
I’m in finance, but I also write in C# and SQL. When I was hired at my new job we had a database admin. Good guy, knows his code very well. His problem? He didn’t understand anything in finance or accounting. It was taking me longer to explain to him what I want then it would take me to write myself. We ended up letting him go.
The point is, you can be an awesome coder, but if you don’t understand the context of what you are doing your code will have a lot of garbage in it.
The problem with $9/hour engineers is that they don’t have real aviation and aerodynamic experience. They wrote a code to instruct a machine on what to do if it was triggered by a sensor. The machine that carries almost 200 souls and goes with the speed of at least 300 mph.

Boeing was irresponsible with this outsourcing decision - such coders should be in house and have equipment available to test their code on, not just some simulators designed by god know who.

 

Then you agree with me: "Most corporations are not like Boeing." Which does not mean that many corporations are not bad actors. Corporations are rather like people - there are many bad ones.

 

There are no crash proof airplanes.

 

It's not bad luck. Good management is supposed to be able to hire, keep their eyes on, and handle engineers intelligently.

Not only did management hire fleapy cheapy, they directed engineers to go in a bad, stupid direction.

Are you flying this July 4th?

Because this is much more widespread than you've seen or heard in the news.

 

In the case of MAX and MCAS, there were no tests done in all likelihood, no test results to check. Boeing cheated the system. Bad corporate leadership.

 

Than just might amount to manslaughter.

 

Yes, and numerous other federal violations.

 

We seem to have regulators so that corrupt corporations can act like we have no grand juries.