californians discover $10 million in gold coins

lots of southerners buried gold coins during the civil war

but i doubt there are many, if any like this one (photos at link)


Gold Country couple discovers $10 million in buried coins

Kevin Fagan, San Francisco Chronicle
Updated 3:06 pm, Tuesday, February 25, 2014


(02-25) 15:04 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- Some dream of roaming the earth to hunt buried treasure. One Sierra Nevada couple didn't have to go that far. They dug it up in their backyard - about $10 million worth, in 19th century U.S. gold coins stuffed into rusty cans.

It's believed to the biggest hoard of gold coins ever unearthed in the United States. And it's going on sale soon.

The bonanza emerged last year as the man and woman were walking their dog on their property in the Gold Country and noticed the top of a decaying canister poking out of the ground.

They dug it out with a stick, took it to their house and opened it up. Inside was what looked like a batch of discs covered in dirt from holes rotted through the can.

They weren't just discs.

A little brushing revealed nearly perfectly preserved $20 gold coins with liberty head designs on the front, dated from the 1890s. They ran back to the same spot, and when they were done digging, they'd found a total of eight cans containing 1,427 coins - with a face value of $27,980.

Oldest from 1847

A total of 1,373 were $20 coins, 50 were $10 coins and four were $5 coins. They were dated from 1847 to 1894, and after sprucing up they shone like, well, gold - which fortunately never rots. About a third of the coins were in pristine condition, having never been circulated for spending. Most were minted in San Francisco.

"It was a very surreal moment. It was very hard to believe at first," the man said in an interview taped by the rare-coin dealer he eventually consulted to make sense of the find. "I thought any second an old miner with a mule was going to appear."

The couple are keeping their identities and location secret for many reasons, the main one being to prevent treasure hunters from ripping up their land with backhoes. But they've allowed coin dealer Don Kagin of Tiburon, who helped evaluate some of the biggest sunken treasure finds in history, to offer the collection up for sale.

It's dubbed the Saddle Ridge Hoard, after the spot on the couple's property where it was found. The collection is expected to sell for at least $10 million, either as a whole or in pieces, based on the evaluated condition of the coins.

Buried treasure

"You hear all those Wild West stories of buried treasure, and you think they're fantasies - well here, this one really did happen," Kagin said the other day as he and his senior numismatist, David McCarthy, laid out dozens of the coins and cans for inspection at their office. "And what is almost unbelievable about this collection is what pristine condition so many of them are in."

According to "American Coin Treasures and Hoards," the bible of buried treasure finds, the biggest hoard of gold coins dug up before Saddle Ridge was a collection found by construction workers in Jackson, Tenn., in 1985. It had a face value of $4,500 and sold for $1 million.

Kagin and McCarthy met with the couple in April, two months after the hoard was dug up and the inevitable attorneys had gotten involved.

"The first thing the family did after finding all the cans was rebury them in a cooler under their wood pile," McCarthy said. "They were terrified and had to think about what to do."

He said when he first sat with the couple to examine the find, "the family had cut little squares into some foam and put 18 of the coins in the squares in a cigar box. I pulled out the first coin, and it was from 1890. It had dirt on it, but when I looked close, it dawned on me just exactly what it was.

"I almost fell out of my chair. It was mind-blowing. I was literally sitting with the most amazing buried treasure I've ever heard of."

Months of restoration

He spent the next several months restoring the coins - a job so consuming that "my fingers bled," McCarthy said. It then took until this month for them all to be appraised and readied for sale.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Gold-Country-couple-discovers-millions-in-buried-5266314.php#page-1

 

And, then comes this:

Prospectors Say Drought Has Created California’s 2nd Gold Rush

As someone who was an amateur rock hound many decades ago in Southern California, I can tell you this is back-breaking toil in barbaric conditions. If you're not a true lover of Nature with knowledge of how to live in an “uncivilized” manner, this is not for you. Read more @ http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014...rought-has-created-californias-2nd-gold-rush/

 

Finders Keepers

About the couple that found $10 million on their land. Read the story @ http://nation.time.com/2014/02/26/california-gold-coins-finders-keepers-john-mary/

 

Bunch of Bullion: Dealer Says Gold Coin Hoard Not From Heist

The rare coin expert who is helping a California couple sell $10 million in gold pieces they dug up said Tuesday that there is no way the mother lode came from a 1900 heist at the San Francisco Mint.

That theory has been floating around since the so-called Saddle Ridge Hoard — a cache of 1,427 coins minted between 1847 and 1894 and buried under a tree in cans — came to light last week.

But David McCarthy, senior numismatist for Kagin's, said it's about as likely as a three-dollar bill.

"It's provably incorrect," he told NBC News.

Even though the number and value of the coins swiped from a cashier's vault at the mint match the hoard, McCarthy reeled off a list of reasons they're not one and the same:

The mint's vault probably would have held bags containing coins from a single year with identical mint marks, but the hoard is much more diverse.

The hoard contains many coins that were heavily circulated, but the mint would have melted down and reissued those, not stored them.

There are 50 $10 gold coins in the hoard. Those were never mentioned in accounts of the mint heist, also known as the Dimmick Defalcation.

The hoard's coins don't have what experts call "bag marks," which they would expect to see on coins that had been vaulted for any length of time.

None of the hoard coins have dates after 1894, which would mean they would have been stored for six years at a minimum if they were from the mint job. "Who keeps 6-year-old inventory, especially of something that is not hard to get rid of?" McCarthy said.

Based on where the coins were discovered a year ago, McCarthy thinks they were amassed by someone doing a lot of a business in gold and who buried each can as soon as it was filled up, possibly over a span of 20 years.

An unexpected death would explain why they were abandoned — only to be found by the anonymous couple walking their dog on their property a century later.

"You can't take it with you," he said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bunch-bullion-dealer-says-gold-coin-hoard-not-heist-n44256

 

Couple’s $10M backyard gold-coin bonanza could belong to the government
http://pix11.com/2014/03/04/california-couples-10m-backyard-gold-coin-bonanza-may-have-been-stolen/

Maybe it was buried to avoid FDR's gold confiscation from Americans.
"All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933"
http://seekingalpha.com/article/140279-the-myth-of-gold-confiscation


Moi
Remember boys and girls, you find gold coins, keepayoumouthshut !
Cash them in as you need the cash and sshhhh

No ​

 

Back in 1933, did the government compensate people for the gold they took? I hope so, otherwise it was theft. Even if this found gold dated from then, it's 81 years later and no longer illegal for people to own gold. For the government to seize it now in a retroactive fit is unconscionable. Wait. I just heard on the radio that the gold may have been stolen from the US Mint in the 19th century. If it was stolen, that's different. The couple should at least be eligible for a generous finder's fee. Even so, it's niggling for the government to come after the money now. Considering what the government spends, $10M is insignificant. I say, let the couple enjoy their good fortune and pay income tax on the amount.

As Moi wrote, "Remember boys and girls, you find gold coins, keepayoumouthshut! Cash them in as you need the cash and sshhhh" Exactly.

 

wake up, it's 2014 and the couple isn't giving the gold to the government

they're selling it and keeping the proceeds

yes, of course they did

 

It was merely suggested the Gold may have been buried to avoid the government demand Americans not own gold.
Long, long ago.
Okay ?

At least the finders can pay "income tax"


Moi

No ​

 

did you read the article?

"An unexpected death would explain why they were abandoned…"

the time frame doesn't fit with fdr's gold recall in 1933

 

Please type slowly pour Moi and explain
why gold coins, old even in 1933
might not have be buried to avoid Federalization.
Just because the article surmised otherwise. They must be the better surmisers, huh.
Maybe it was Joaquin Murietta who buried his loot liberated from Anglos for La Raza.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquin_Murrieta
Nope, the dates don't match up
RIP - Joaquin M. 1829 - 1853


Moi

No ​

 

why weren't there any coins from after 1894?

 

Thank you. In the Age of Obama, one has to ask.

 

this really isn't the age of obama and this story has nothing to do with him




The Law of Finders-Keepers and What Happens When You Find Buried Treasure

A California couple found $10 million in gold coins, and they're selling the loot

By Katy Steinmetz - Feb. 26, 2014


A California couple was out walking the dog around their property last year when they stumbled across eight buried cans—with an estimated $10 million worth of gold coins inside. A year later, the rare coin dealer approached by the anonymous couple went public with the find on Tuesday. The long delay from find to fame was partly because of questions about how strong the couples claim to ownership was for the roughly 1,400 gold coins, dated from 1847 to 1894.

And it turns out that, in many cases, finders really are keepers.

Governments have been issuing rules about lost and found property—who owns it and how it shall be divided—for millennia. If a Roman walking around the Coliseum grounds in the days of Emperor Hadrian’s rule stumbled upon a half-buried pot full of bronze bars, half went to the lucky Roman, half to Hadrian. Today, if a Londoner unearths rare golden coins in his backyard, those belong to the royal family—who would likely pay the digger a handsome fee.

In modern day America, the presumption is “finders-keepers”—though there is a web of statutes and case law that can complicate such a simple maxim.

Generally, “the finder of lost property can keep it against all the world… qualified by the question of where it was found,” says property law expert John Orth, a professor at the University of North Carolina. In the case of “John and Mary” (as they’re being called) and their California coins, the strongest factor in their favor is that they found the coins on their own property. Even if someone could prove that their great-great-grandfather buried those cans, there’s likely little the descendant could do if their grandfather sold that land to John and Mary’s family. “When you buy something, normally you get anything that’s been hidden in it,” says Orth, offering the example of a man who bought a used car for $600 and gets to keep $10,000 he finds in the trunk.

If John and Mary had found the coins while taking a walk on someone else’s property, the booty would likely go to that landowner. But what if someone stumbles across something valuable on public property? Say a San Franciscan strolling across the Golden Gate Bridge finds a bag containing $1 million in cash. In California, there is a law mandating that any found property valued over $100 be turned over to police. Authorities must then wait 90 days, advertise the lost property for a week, and finally release it to the person who found it if no one could prove ownership. Orth says it’s rare for cities or states to make any claim to found property, like the goods that metal-detector-wielding treasure hunters find on public beaches, unless it has some historical or archeological significance.

A legal distinction that often comes to bear is whether property is abandoned, lost or mislaid. Abandoned property is something forsaken by a previous owner, who has no intention of returning for it. Lost property, like an engagement ring accidentally dropped in the street, is something that is inadvertently, unknowingly left behind. And mislaid property is intentionally put somewhere—like money on a bank counter that a customer intends to deposit—but then forgotten. Mislaid property, Orth says, is supposed to be safeguarded by whoever owns the property where it was mislaid until someone with a better claim, like the bank customer, comes back. Abandoned property and lost property are more likely to be dealt with by the easy “finder-keepers” edict.

An Arizona case, in which a man died after having hidden $500,000 in ammunition cans in his walls, helps illustrate the distinction. The man’s daughters, knowing he had a penchant for stashing things away, searched the house after he died before selling it to new owners. Years later, the new owners hired a contractor to renovate the house and he discovered the cans, hidden behind a wall-mounted toaster oven. The new owners said the money should come with the house, that it had essentially been abandoned. But as soon as the heirs found out about the stash they staked their own claim. An appellate court determined in 2012 that the funds were mislaid—having been intentionally put there, not unintentionally lost or thrown away—and awarded the money to the daughters.

A different court could have come to a different conclusion, of course. And cases can get much more complicated, especially when more than two parties are staking a claim. If a diver off the Florida coast happens upon a sunken ship with a trunk full of galleons, for instance, that might yield a legal battle among the finder and the state, descendants of the ship’s owners and any insurance company that paid a claim when the ship went down. “These cases are a mess,” Orth says.

A key piece of common law when it comes to sunken ships might be the same that appears to matter in John and Mary’s case—what is known as “treasure trove.” This is a fourth category—beyond lost, abandoned or mislaid—that refers to any property that is verifiably antiquated and has been concealed for so long that the owner is probably dead or unknown and certainly unlikely to pop out of a grave and demand that his goods be returned. “The obvious fact that these coins had to have gone into the ground in the 1800s certainly helps their case,” says David McCarthy, a coin expert at the dealer that is working with John and Mary.

When someone stumbles upon treasure, the most important question is likely whether someone else has a better claim. In the case of John and Mary and their $10 million pot of gold, anyone else making a claim that trumps their property rights has “a high hurdle” to meet, says Armen Vartian, an attorney specializing in arts and collectible law in Manhattan Beach, Calif.

“When people are arguing over who has a superior claim, the guy who hasn’t pursued his claim is at a disadvantage,” he says, giving the example of someone who said his family had been meaning to come retrieve those eight cans for the last century but just didn’t get around to it. “You might have had a right at some point, but you lose it.”

http://nation.time.com/2014/02/26/california-gold-coins-finders-keepers-john-mary/#ixzz2v665JgNk

 

These people should have kept their mouths shut and took the gold to Mexico to sell.

 

why, so they could be killed and robbed?

they did the right thing and they're getting the money

 

"this really isn't the age of obama and this story has nothing to do with him" ~ Dujac. I admire your optimism about Obama's influence, but he's all about over-reaching government. Seeing him take away health insurance from millions of families (they just postponed it for another 2 years today so that Democrats won't be destroyed in the 2014 elections), I find it easy to believe his government would seize these people's find.

 

that they're keeping and selling the coins, just shows how wrong you are

 

Couple Who Found $10 Million in Gold Coins Will Likely Keep The Loot



Katy Steinmetz / San Francisco March 5, 2014

. / AP Photo
A heist from 1901, from which coins were never recovered, appears unrelated.

Good news. Just wonder how much they're gona get tagged by the state and federal government in taxes.

 

you're wrong about that, too

 

I'm wrong about a lot of things. Here's another: Barack Obama is a fine President.

 

owner probably died in 1894...this is fairly common event in archeology, in past centuries banks often did not exist or there wasnt one nearby, so whoever was responsible for family savings would hide or bury it, problem with that was they could have a sudden death and the loot would be lost...I have an elderly relative that doesnt trust banks and hides gold, jewelry and cash in the wall of the home...

 

that's right, it happened especially during the civil war, in the south



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Midwinter_International_Exposition_of_1894

 

im sure there is still forgotten treasure buried all over the world just waiting for a shovel or plow to hit it...

 

Great attempt at derailing the thread.