Capitalism, A Worker's Best Friend?

What do have against shared worker ownership?

 

I don't, as a worker I do this.
My question to you is simple, if you want this, why have you not already done it?
Most workers are in a position to do this.

If on the other hand you wish to take my job and my company from me, I have no use for you.
I'll find someone else or do without.

Should you wish to purchase a non controlling stake, I would be most agreeable.
If you want me to give you one? No.
You can buy one same as I had to buy mine.

My opinion is simple, almost all workers don't want to invest in the company they work at.
Many companies offer stock options as part of their pay settlements. The option to buy shares at a discount.
Companies like this, employee's don't.

Do you have shares in the company you work for? I do.
If not, why would I take you seriously? I wouldn't.

The impression you give me is that this is not an option available to workers already. It is. That they don't do it, isn't because they can't. It is because they do not wish to.
Why force them to do what they do not wish to do?
Workers typically prefer to get an assured salary than a profit share in exchange for their own investment. That is all.
What have you got against workers getting a fixed salary? I would much prefer all who work for me to work on a profit share and to commit their financial resources to the effort. There is no great queue of such candidates however.

 

Most workers do not make enough money to have a financial stake in the company they're working for.

My position is that there would still be business owners it's just that they give the ability to the workers to have a shared profit within the company, that's all.

As I said, in communism there is no business owners and that is something I am not arguing for.

 

This is not a hypothetical situation.
It is available to workers as is.

You have re-invented the wheel.

So this system you suggest is currently in widespread operation and the result of it is this...
Almost zero worker uptake.
They just aren't interested in this mate. They can get a better deal from their employers and typically do.

 

Huh?

 

If all of this already exists as you say it does, why don't more workers partake in it?

 

Workers can buy shares in their company.
Most companies offer this.

Workers don't want to. They prefer a deal where they get paid a guaranteed wage that is not dependent on profits.
It's a better deal. Why would they settle for a lesser offer when a better one is available?

 

Why haven't you?
If you haven't done it, you know more about the reasons why you haven't done it than I do.


This is my suggestion.
They have a better deal on offer and take that instead.

They don't want to buy their way into a job, and they don't want uncertain pay settlements.
They have other uses for their money I expect. Like beer and football matches.
Or buying a house. Presents for the kids.

And since they don't have to settle for random wages, they don't.


For example when I take a temping job, I just want money fast.
I don't have any spare cash to invest. I need a job that already has investment. That doesn't need any from me.
I'm not interested in mortgaging my house for a minimum wage factory job. Jog on. Get real.
I can get a bar job tomorrow, no money down.
A factory job the same.

I simply don't want to invest anything more than my time in most cases.


So it all sounds well and good on paper, in ideal, but in practise no one wansts this enough to put their money down.
They want it if it is free, sure, who wouldn't.
They may even say they want it and would be willing to pay for it.
But what people "say" they will pay for and what they will actually put their money down for is not the same.

 

Which I just told you a majority do not because they don't make enough money to invest into such things. It's also why they don't invest in the stock market because we have one of the most expensive stock markets in the world.

Disposable income has been destroyed for most.

 

We agree most people don't do it.

They have enough to invest in such things if they are earning, but you have to sacrifice other things.
It is a question of priorities.

I go without to make my investments. Other people aren't willing to.

Are you willing to skip your childs birthday, to take no holidays or days off.
Are you willing to go without heating in your home. Meals out, video games, cinema trips. books and a new computer. Will you skip your internet connection and your smart phone?
No smoking, eat only the cheapest foods. No beer, no butter on your bread.
I sacrifice. So I know you can too.
When was the last time you took cold showers in winter to save money?

It's up to you. Choose what you want more.

Stocks are available for pennies. You can buy penny stocks. Cheaper than a lottery ticket.
Stocks are affordable. Not many company sell stocks of a high price.
They sell lots of cheap ones, not a few really expensive ones.

If you want it you can have it.
You just don't want it enough to get your wallet out.

You can afford a computer, you can afford internet. You have enough to buy shares.
You choose not to.

 

please stop clowning! Monopolies that bring a nation to brink of ruin have been illegal for 100 years!!!

 

Trump was elected to help workers who had seen liberals ship their jobs to China! Donald has cut taxes and regulations and renegotiated trade deals to help workers. Do you understand?

 

anybody with a pension plan will own stocks plus many others!!
Stock ownership before 2008 was 62 percent, Gallup found. Even after recent inflows, only 54 percent of Americans are invested now. More adults in the United States own homes than stocks. "There's been an enormous push to have people own their own homes.Aug 3, 2017
Dow 22,000? Most Americans don't benefit from record stock market ...

www.chicagotribune.com/.../ct-americans-dow-22000-investing-20170803-story.html

 

socialism has already killed 120 million. Hard to imagine people still support it! At 200 million dead will you stop?

 

If the liberal has evidence of that I will pay you $10,000. Bet?

 

and the best example of combining business and govt was Obamacare- right? And so you are Trumper for capitalism wherein business and govt are separated-right?

 

of course if that was true the liberal would not be so afraid to present his best example. What does the liberal learn from his fear?

 

if you have evidence that this has happened I'll pay you $10,000? Bet or run away with your liberal tail between your legs.

 

Wrong of course!! liberal unions, liberal taxes, liberal regulations, and liberal trade deals have shipped American jobs to China. Do you understand?

 

Actually Trumps policies are despised by liberals because they are very different policies. Do you understand?

 

I believe in genuine worker ownership (such that they have control over decision making in all enterprises, other than SMEs). Unlike you, I think the theory of the elites is complete hogwash. Unlike you, I celebrate individualism and how worker ownership- by replacing inefficient hierarchy required in capitalism- improves decision-making and increases productivity.

 

Republican capitalism obviously since it forces companies to provide the best jobs wages products and prices possible in the entire world just to survive. If you doubt it start a company! Isn't learning fun?

 

goofy nonsense of course! if that worked all corporations, especially failing corporations, obviously would be switching to it to survive and beat competition. Are you going to send all the workers to Harvard Business School so they can manage on a par with the competition from HBS? What a goofy joke!!

 

What do you think about Syndicalism?

 

You seem like a smart individual so perhaps you can help me in that I'm always trying to find a way to describe my socialist aspirations, what do you call an economic system that combines state capitalism with a social market economy? [A sort of hybrid pertaining to both systems.]