China Hit US With New Tariffs

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Arkanis, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    6,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only nothing is your knowledge on the topic.
     
  2. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    6,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Glad others can see it...
     
  3. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    14,446
    Likes Received:
    6,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You nailed it

    China floods are streets with fentanyl, steals are intellectual property, hacks are cyber systems, and engages in completely unfair trade polices....we finally have a President addressing them head on, instead of sitting by wagging his finger while the Chinese military expands into the South China Sea
     
  4. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh bullshit. thats a pathetic ad hoc explanation. I've heard IP theft, trade deficits, and now fentanyl (wtf) as reasons for the trade war. As someone who believes very strongly in free trade I think we do whatever we can do to facilitate it.
     
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  5. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bilateral trade deficits don't mean sh**. To claim that do is to look the fool.
     
  6. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    pro tip: don't get your knowledge on trade from listening to trump. You will only look stupid when talking to people who do understand the subject.

    https://econofact.org/what-do-we-learn-from-bilateral-trade-deficits

    "Bilateral trade deficit statistics, which are based on gross values rather than value added, misrepresent the actual value of net trade between one country and another because of international supply chains and the widespread use of inputs from other countries. Thus the reported measures of bilateral trade balances do not accurately reflect the domestic content of the goods exchanged, and these measures should not be used to infer something about the reciprocity of the associated bilateral trade policies. Furthermore, a country’s overall trade deficit represents the difference between its investment and its savings (including government savings, that is, the government budget surplus or, in the case of a government budget deficit, negative savings) rather than the aggregate effect of trade policies. For the United States, the aggregate trade deficit is a reflection of a low national savings rate relative to investment. This deficit does not reflect anything about the “fairness” U.S.’s trade policies with respect to any particular trading partner.|
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
    fiddlerdave and ronv like this.
  7. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,589
    Likes Received:
    1,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It always end to be democrat's fault....
     
  8. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    13,819
    Likes Received:
    5,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    " Normal" trade with China taking our jobs and stealing our intellectual property and is unacceptable if America wants to retain its position as an economic superpower.
     
  9. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    13,819
    Likes Received:
    5,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Democrats and China have the same goals. Get Trump out of office and return to the "good old days" where China waged economic war in us as we bent over and took it up the ass.
     
    HB Surfer likes this.
  10. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And yet we are at full employment, a robust economy, and exemplary standard of living. The only thing that is unacceptable is blowing up our economy with no gadamn contingency plan!
     
  11. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't know what you're talking about. It's sad to think about the state of knowledge of the average American today.
     
  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    13,819
    Likes Received:
    5,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you think our economy has prospered by not fighting back as China stole our intellectual property and stole our jobs along with that you prove your following post to be correct.

     
  13. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,127
    Likes Received:
    1,233
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's okay, we'll just keep passing bailouts for our agriculture industry
     
  14. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think that you have no idea what you're talking about. I think you don't even care more than to defend trump. Anyone that would use such hyperbole (taking it up the ass) in a country that is doing so well economically sounds like a f*cking <censored>.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  15. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15,994
    Likes Received:
    5,832
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But we don’t have free or fair trade. Trump goes and slaps tariffs like they do to us and he’s the bad guy? China has never wanted free trade. Clinton bent over and handed them the farm just to make it seem like it was a good thing we could buy a bunch of cheap crap. China was playing the long game knowing they could wipe out our manufacturing complex. . If at some point people will be obsolete and we can easily set up massive automated factories here, then we’ll be in the drivers seat again.

    Like others have said, WTF are all the low skilled people going to do? That’s what the whole UBI concept is supposed to bandaid. As anyone who deals with other people, education is not enough. It’s quite simple. There are massive amounts of incompetent people out there that can not do what others are able. No amount of education will help that. It’s purely innate. Some people can’t handle pressure or basic responsibility of a job that doesn’t involve extremely basic tasks. Some people just can’t think. It’s no accident some people can’t rise above a minimum wage job. It’s not for lack of opportunity It’s because many people are just stupid. That’s life.
     
  16. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    4,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can you please tell us how this is going to end up?
     
  17. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If we keep going down the path of increasing tariffs?
    Less demand for US goods, more unemployment, higher rates of poverty. I mean, isn't it clear to you?
     
  18. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    4,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    China is not the only option for cheap labor. Are you suggesting we continue down the same path?
     
  19. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course not. I've said ad nauseam that establishing trade agreements with nations that have similar comparative advantages as China is the best course of action. I've also said that refusing to import from China with no alternative for cheap goods from anywhere else is unnecessary suicide. It's cutting off our nose to spite our face.
    However, opening up new supply lines with other emerging countries doesn't affect the boogey man that is a bilateral trade deficit. Americans are just going to need to get smarter.
     
  20. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    7,616
    Likes Received:
    3,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Dirty Donald retaliated this afternoon raising the rate on $250 Billion of Chinese imports into the USA from 10% to 15%.As he socks it to American consumers.
     
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  21. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another view, this guy has the correct credentials next to his name.


    https://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/money/2016/07/20/cray-negative-effects-tariffs/87286114/

    First, raising tariffs will increase the cost of imported products and lead to an acceleration in domestic inflation. A tariff is a tax levied on imports and studies have shown that the lower class and the middle class tend to be hurt disproportionally by higher prices (the tax) than the wealthy.

    Second, another reason for an increase in prices is that domestic producers will take advantage of the situation and raise their prices. In other words, there will be less competitive pressure to keep their prices low. Historically, domestic producers have opted to increase their profit margins over gaining market shares. In addition, less competition reduces the incentive to innovate and to improve existing products. The automobile industry is an excellent example of these outcomes.

    Third, when country A raises its trade barriers, like tariffs or quotas, its trading partners will most assuredly retaliate. This will curtail the exports of country A. Exporting industries in country A will see a drop in demand for their products and it will not be long before these industries start laying off people and negating much of the employment gains from protectionist policies.

    Fourth, if country A raises tariffs on country B’s products, country B will have less income to spend on country A’s exports. Again this will have a negative impact on country A’s employment, and its overall economy.

    Fifth, tariffs protect inefficient domestic industries at the expense of efficient industries and this situation will create an internal misallocation of resources. In other words, land, labor, and capital will flow toward inefficient industries that are subsidized by protectionist policies and thus not as readily available to those industries that are competitive. The economic damage to the globally competitive industries will also come from the retaliatory actions of other nations. The retaliatory actions will limit competitive industries in their ability to access foreign markets.

    Lastly, the vast majority of economists believe the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 greatly contributed to turning a recession into the Great Depression. This act was passed with the idea that it would protect domestic industries and jobs. All the act succeeded in doing was to help crush world trade and economic activity. Let’s hope that the majority of people realize that raising tariffs comes with a high cost.
     
    ronv and Scamander like this.
  22. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    4,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Americans are addicted to cheap crap that will be in a landfill in a few years. I would strongly oppose these tariffs if China was doing business with integrity.
     
  23. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh stop it. Our businesses are addicted to "that cheap crap" that allows them to be competitive on the global market. That consumers can get that cheap crap has allowed the average American a personal phone for everyone in their family, satellite tv , high speed internet, big screen TVs (in every room), frequent nights out to the restaurant, nice vacations, etc. I mean, we are living pretty damn good thanks to that cheap crap. Don't kid yourself, this standard of living completely disintegrates without cheap imports.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
    fiddlerdave and JakeStarkey like this.
  24. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    23,372
    Likes Received:
    8,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Trade wars are easy to win."
     
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  25. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    4,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We don't manufacture much that can compete in the global market. Our only advantage is ingenuity and they can just steal it and sell the knockoff cheaper.

    As far as living better, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't see spending several hours a day looking at a screen a high quality of life.

    Off topic, In less than an hour, I will be taking my family camping for the weekend. We will be riding ATVs, grilling food, playing games talking with one another, and there is ZERO cell phone reception where we are going. Life is good!
     

Share This Page