Discussion in 'Asia' started by Mac-7, Jun 21, 2019.
Hong Kong enjoys democratic freedoms now and will until china takes them away
Surely China is a threat ... no one denies this. The point, however, is how to go about it to improve the situation.
Surely it does not help to threat with the baseball bat and start a trade war that you can not win and where there will only be 2 losers as a result!
I also find it a trivial thing as China is involved in the dispute over these islands in the South China Sea ... without question! However, I understand why the Chinese act that way, because it's about valuable resources ... but "understanding" does not mean that I accept Chinese action.
Only ... what are the US doing against that? So far, absolutely nothing! Leave the Philipines and Vietnam alone ...
Likewise ... China steals geisiges property and is world champion with plagiarism ... that everyone knows for 30 years. Also, it is not new that China bought half state by buying companies rights and knowledge in the West .... in Europe and in the US!
What does Trump do about it? Nothing ... but unfortunately my government sleeps on this topic too!
But Trump starts a mega dispute over the trade .... but it makes it so that he does not hurt Aple and bislan not Ivanka Trump .... and that looks quite ridiculous ...
Bush and obama tried gentle persuadion but that had no affect at all
And as china grows stronger at our expense they just get bolder
Hong kong enjoy now only because the deal in 97 between Britain and china. the irony is hongkong never enjoy freedom under brit until brit give them away.
OK ... then explain the relations and freindship to Saudi Arabia please ... only to give one of many examples!
I can also ask you why the US supported worst scum of dictators in Central and South America ...
Hong Kong alawys had more freedom than red china even uder british rule
That both have failed is true ... but also Clinton failed too, not to forget to say!
But instead making measures with sense, Trump plays the Berserk! Why does Trump not implement laws wqhich fobid outsopurcing and building plants in Chian for American companies ... for example?
Whjy not forbidding that Chinese can buy American companies like in a supermarket?
lol their governor is white from scottland and with british accent, and was not elected from local. up till 70s hongkong were treated as 2nd class. wonder why most protester are youngster and not those went through 70/80s. again I talk to several HK ppl before who went through 80s HK, their words, not mine. in 97 china and british made the deal, british want HK to be democratic even though it never allow election through its 100yrs rule.
In terms of individual freedoms, including economic freedom, all the British colonies were better off being ruled from London, than being ruled by their local elites. Certainly this is true of the poor devils in Africa -- and I might make an exception for Singapore, which probably made more economic progress after being rid of British constraints like the right to strike and to protest.
However, national feeling is very strong, and usually trumps everything else. I had academic acquaintances in Hong Kong, and when I was there in the mid-90s, I was shocked to find that they were very happy to see the British preparing to leave, and the Communists take over. I underestimated national pride, a typical American fault. (I don't know how they feel now. They may have assumed that China would continue to liberalize.)
If the United States had a ruler with any sense, he would offer all inhabitants of Hong Kong instant American citizenship.
The stupid juncture of allowing China to buy American companies and real estate, and allowing American companies to manufacture in China, was a high-brow bridge disaster crossed long ago. Unfortunately, it is a part of the war against the middle class by the elites.
Sadly, I think globalism is more popular among the ruling elites in America than national sovereignty
Even if it means eventual domination by red china
But dont be too smug about it because I dont think the euro elites are any wiser
If wiser I will not rate .. but they are using another way and because the EU is much strionger as the US (sorry, but this is even by Trump an undisputed fact), the EU has more economic power to convince China to change things. But if they doing well or well enough ... ehm ... no they don't!
Ifthe EU were asingle united country they would still be at a disadvantage to china in population and the soze of their economy
And in terms of ruthlessness to accomplish national goals
So is the US btw
We support Saudi Arabia because of oil and we are wrong to do so..
We supported evil scum dictators around the world because they were better than the communists attacking them. Had we not done that we would have been forced to fight the Soviets toe to toe and billions would have died.
Sad and stupid as it was the cold war saved lives.
Beating back the communists was the most noble military undertaking in human history. Except maybe the crusades which was beating back Muslim invaders.
Oil is a vital world need
Cut off oil and the world economy crashes
So we ally with a major oil supplier
hmm i recall iran/Venezuela/russia also have a lot oils.
Not enough to supply the whole world and kerp the world economy from crashing
dude... the federal government of Spain rounded up politicians of Barcelona for breaching federal laws. The ringleader, Puigdemont, has been a refugee in Belgium for 2 years now or something.
One had the best of intentions that was just disastrous, one is just utterly down right evil fueled with an insane ideas of racism. And that story you know,... that was rather "normal" thing they did. The genocide the Japanese unleashed was far greater than what the nazi's did to the Jews. The deathtoll is 3 to 4 times higher.
That was when they pushed for full independence. Hong Kong is not looking for full independence either.
Texas was an independent republic from 1836 to 1845. My first president was Sam Houston.
Good .... we have same opinion!
Here I have to contradict you unfortunately!
It is always this ... sorry ... propaganda fairy tales of the US, that it was better to support the local bastard of dictator, to prevent the worse communist rebels come to power!
This is a very bad excuse ... because at worst, it can only be as bad under the Communistne as under the dictator. Proof of this is South Vietnam, where the bloodthirsty regime you supported filtered evil, murdered people, and all that ... and when those bastards were disempowered, the Communists just raged just as the bastards had raged before!
Were you previously suspected of being a communist and / or supporter of the Viet Cong ... or even being a Viet Cong ... then that was your death sentence! After the Communist takeover, the case ran in reverse ...
And a comparison to the Crusades is lame ... very evil even! The Crusaders were everything, but not noble defenders of Christianity against the evil Muslims! They had been mass murderers ... and hopefully you know that there were far more crusades than those in the ME. For example, in the East against the then pagan Balts or on the French-Spanish border against the Cathars = Christians who practiced their religion differently as the Pope wants it ... Keyword Catharism!
And for that to be clear ... I'm an atheist ... and as such I have to tell you that the Islamists still have to make damn hard to get the same number of victims as those who were murdered in the name of Christianity!
But Texas is a fine example for you righty Americans, why you have to pay attention to immigrants.
Texas was the territory of Mexico, into which many Americans immigrated. At some point, for some reason, these immigrants no longer liked being part of Mexico, so they rebelled against the legitimate state.
The EU is first and foremost an economic community of 27 Member States (excluding the UK because of Brexit), which have voluntarily agreed to have a common internal market. In other words, these 27 members have given national sovereignty to the joint administration and institutions in Brussels.
In other words, in all commercial matters within the internal market and outward to other countries, the EU, like the USA ... but in all other issues is not or not complete.
That's why China deals with the EU as a whole when it comes to trade ... not with 27 individual countries. The same applies to all other countries, for example the USA.
And in terms of economics, the EU is bigger than the US (again, even Trump does not deny that!) And it's big enough to put a lot of pressure on China.
The basic problem with Trump is that he has as much idea of diplomacy as a cow has a clue about flying!
Just as Trump does, and in his misconception that we can do diplomacy as he did his deals as CEO, in the end he can only fail and cause harm to the US.
Separate names with a comma.