Discussion in 'Africa' started by scarlet witch, Dec 12, 2019.
Capitalism creates poverty, Socialism creates prosperity - Case in Point - Romania.
You must be responding to someone I have on ignore but it is more than just being born there, they settled on empty land
In 1852 the Sand River Convention was signed with the British, acknowledging the independence of the Two Boer Republics of the Transvaal and the Orange Free State. These are the two territories the Boers settled.... ON EMPTY LAND.
I'll share some images... the first is a youtube video that shows you the worlds population during the time the whites arrived in Africa... a yellow dot show one million people... in Mozambique
South Africa's land is arid, you can only farm on 30% of it if you drill a borehole... something blacks didn't know to do. Without a borehole you can only survive on 7-8% of the land in South Africa
The following images are screenshots of a book published in 1961 on the immigration problem after the discovery of gold on the Witwatersrand in 1886, the influx of migrants caused a big headache for the Boers.
In Johannesburg (after the influx of gold digger migrants) the population was as follows
952 Cape Malays
2879 mixed race
The British decided they made a mistake signing the Sand River convention (even though they already had the diamond fields in Kimberley and using the defeated Xhosa as cheap labour to mine diamonds). Going after the Gold the British invaded the Boer Republics of the Orange Free State and the Transvaal, and opened the worlds FIRST CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Please note this honour did not go to Germany (I'll post an image on that right at the bottom)
I'll post the first page with the above numbers... but happy to post more..
After the British won the Anglo Boer war in 1902, they opened the Transvaal and Orange Free State Borders. They didn't only have the honour of the worlds first Concentration camps but also the worlds first Open Border policy.... to exploit black labour. This is why outside every town in South Africa you find a Black Township... the illegal migrants settling around the white towns looking for work.
Whites didn't steal Black land, in fact the exact opposite is happening RIGHT NOW
is this your professional opinion
here is China's economy when they turned towards capitalism
compare the Soviet Union to non Communist Russia today,
Look at the entire communist African continent... unable to feed itself
look at North Korea
ln the past 30 years we've seen a deliberate push to corrupt capitalism and change it into something ugly... the purpose being to make communism more palatable.
Corruption is not something uniquely capitalist... you find it in Communism also... except there is much more money in a capitalist system so you are talking far bigger numbers
Plenty of white Americans have an opinion about non white Americans needing to go home to where they came from. The same type of white people what special treatment in SA like in the good old days. Are you not aware of this? Really? lol
I'm afraid all these ideas of the current SA ruling parties have nothing to do with both Socialism and Capitalism. It's only a cover to ultimately grab the whites' land.
I was just giving a counter example to prove the point that one anecdote does not an argument make. No need to get into a quantitative discussion on the benefits of capitalism. The question here is whether or not you know the drawbacks of capitalism... Scarlet San.
Of course and they are far less than the drawbacks of communism
It's not just land, they can take your bank account, car, urban home...
The other problem of course is many of the properties (farm and urban) are heavily mortgaged, especially since you can't farm commercially without using the land as collateral. This means South African banks likely stand to loose billions...
communism and socialism are different things - In any case - you have not listed any of the drawbacks - so it is difficult to asses - nor have you stated what form of capitalism you are referring to. How about the Feudal system .. is that a good form of Capitalism ?
Yet no land has been grabbed.
Did you know what the Feudal system was Scarlet - How was this system any better than communism ?
G I always find it amusing when posters tell me "you've given no evidence" when all you posted was "communism is better because Romania"
If Progress and prosperity is not enough for you consider the greater odds of being alive in a capitalist system... note the amount of people who died under communism eclipse the bubonic plague, the imperialism of Genghis Khan, European colonialism, and both world wars combined.
Your going down some strange path - making assumptions along the way - as to what I think - but you are on a different page.
Your idea of "Communism" - is a totalitarian Regime - and for sure this described Romania under Ceaucescu. I know many that escaped under threat of death. Great stories .. walking 21 days - avoiding roads - in the winter - from Romania to Italy.
That is what many associate with Socialism - and the various heads of state in that dept .. some of which you mention - although your article was terrible .. not objective. Marx made some insights - and some of them good - other of his idea's - less so.
but socialism is not necessarily totalitarianism - and most often not in most nations of the world - including the US - one of the most Socialist nations on the planet.
Do I have a problem with how wealth is being collected and redistributed in this world - Absolutely - Does this make me "anti Socialism" - in ways it does.
Then we have the other side of the spectrum - Good aspects and bad aspects of Capitalism.
Extreme Socialism (commie totalitarian) and extreme capitalism meet at the far end of the spectrum - in both cases you have a few elite controlling/owning all or most resources and means of production.
Obviously both extremes are bad - and you can point out negatives all day long .. but in Romania - everyone had a job, a house in which to live, free healthcare, pension, and so on. .. lacking other freedoms however.
Trivializing this topic to some goofball's rant about Marx - is not the solution.
Honestly G, if I had to choose a goofball between him and you... it won't be him
The problems with Romania likely similar to Ukraine and South Africa, have more to do with Soros and corruption and less with the flaws of capitalism
You are missing the point - I am fully aware of the pitfalls of communism/socialism - what you seem to want to avoid is the pitfalls inherent in capitalism.
And the dude you linked to was a goofball.
Separate names with a comma.