Could all humans begin from just two people?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Nov 17, 2020.

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Could G-d in a sense learn or evolve and still be G-d???

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
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  2. No

    9 vote(s)
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  3. That is a really unusual question.... but intriguing?!

    0 vote(s)
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  1. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    You mentioned Judaism. I was talking about how i believe that religion has connections to the truth, but I believe that Jesus is the truth. What I said was relevant to what you said about Judaism.
     
  2. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    Believing in a Creator and a Savior who loves His creation so much he would die to save them from their sins is different from believing in religion. Sin is real. Everyone does things that they arent supposed to do. Thats why Jesus died for our sins.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You keep saying the same thing and then spamming.

    So far, your "believe in physics" is really not true. You pick and choose what to believe out of physics.

    Physics doesn't work that way. For example, you can't say, "I believe in physics, but this universe is only 6000 years old". You can't have it both ways.
     
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  4. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    Jesus wasnt trying to overthrow their leadership. Some of the Pharisees actually believed in Jesus. Do you think that the Pharisees listened when Jesus rebuked them? They seemed open to correction. I dont think they were totally outraged by what Christ said. I think that Jesus was disappointed in their actions.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/scribes-and-Pharisees.html

     
  5. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    How do physics make a 6000 year old impossible? I dont necessarily think its that young, maybe its 12 thousand ish years old.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    When talking about how religion and science relate to each other it doesn't matter what religion you want to focus on.

    The main reason I add other religions is to make the point that it is religion and science, not Christian religion and science. You may reject all other religions but your own. But, I don't see a way in which that changes the comparison of religion and science in any substantive way. The issue is that Christianity is religion - it's not about the various (and differing) beliefs of Christians.
     
  7. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    I dont believe in religion I believe in a relationship with God. God created science.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There are a number of different methods of measuring sizes and distances in our universe. I'd rather not try to run through that here in a post.

    BUT, there are some dimensions that can give an idea of what has been found.

    The size of our own galaxy, the Milkey Way, is large enough that it takes light 105,000 years for light to travel from one side to the other. We aren't in the middle, but we can see the edes on both sides.

    A size that might be interesting from there is that there are 51 galaxies in our local cluster of galaxies. We can see some of these simply by looking at the heavens. These galaxies are all a LONG LONG way away from the Milkey way - FAR farther away that the 105,000 years width of our galaxy.

    For example, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. It has taken 2.5 million years for light from Andromeda to reach Earth. YOU can see this galaxy without telescopes or binoculars - by naked eye as they say. You need a dark moonless night and know where to look. It will look like an oblong smudge - not like a star.

    From there, galaxy clusters are grouped in superclusters that stay "near" each other by the combined gravity of the cluster. There are about 180,000 galaxies in our supercluster - which has a diameter of about 100 million light years. That is, it takes light that long to travel from one side to the other. There are lots of superclusters.

    With our Hubble telescope astronomers have found about 100 billion galaxies. Astronomers estimate that there are another 100 billion galaxies within the section of our universe that is visible.

    We could look at other ways of getting an idea of the size of our universe. Of course, astronomers actually measure the age of our universe. They don't just get an idea!! There are a number of ways to do this, so the results can be cross checked.


    ANYWAY, this univers is WAY too large for 12,000 years to measure much of anything.

    As I pointed out earlier, if you want to believe your age you also have to believe that god tricked us by manufacturing beams of light and other electromagnetic spectrum (radio, xrays, etc., etc.) gravitational waves, etc headed toward Earth that make us THINK there are stars out there - even though there aren't!!!

    You would have to believe God is lying to us in that massive way - faking out Hubble, faking out ALL our other telescopes, faking out what you see with your own eyes. Your god would have to be a liar.
     
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  9. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    Science supports the Bible because the universe is not eternal. I believe that Hubble and our telescopes are real. I dont believe the conspiracy theory that the NASA pictures are faked. I believe that there are stars out there. The Bible mentions there being stars.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/universe-eternal.html

     
  10. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    The light years and the stars dont mean that the universe is old. I remember someone said years ago on political forum that the earth is old because we can see stars in the sky and stars are light years away. https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth


     
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I am saying is that things like evolution fit perfectly with the Bible.

    Since we know that sometimes they contradict, and we know science is correct, it means our translation of the Bible is wrong.

    The more science advances the more clear the Bible becomes.

    For instance, science has found evidence of great floods in that region but not a worldwide flood which means the entire planet never flooded at once as we thought.

    So how can we now interpret that scripture more accurately? Well we see that the Bible uses six different meanings for the word Earth from a plot of land to the entire planet.

    So when it says the entire Earth flooded that could mean a number of things.
     
  12. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    I dont agree with theistic evolution. God created the heavens and the earth so why wouldnt he have created life the same way? Evolution is a theory made by Charles Darwin, who was an agnostic, and theistic evolution is a way to reconcile that belief with the Bible. I believe that God created everything by creation and not evolution. I believe in the global flood because its supported by other beliefs. Thats evidence that there was a global flood. A literal reading of the Scriptures about Noah show that it was literal.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/theistic-evolution.html

     
  13. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God made this world based on the physics we know so there is no reason to think he created anything instantly. We understand how the planets are formed and science we know supports it and God didn't say differently so I do believe we know that he used physics to do it, not magic.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  14. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    I think theistic evolution and the old earth are Christians believing beliefs from the world. https://probe.org/is-theistic-evolution-the-only-viable-answer-for-thinking-christians/

     
  15. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with that but the bottom line is it's all a guess. If God had wanted us to know then He would have told us.

    In fact, that is one of the things that leads me to believe the Bible is true. So man stories clearly defined without revealing facts, written by so many people, over so many centuries, often without knowledge of other writings before theirs, and how they all come together so nicely.....well I doubt you could a group of writers like that anywhere in the world.

    To me that has to have been divinely inspired.
     
  16. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    The supposed creation of birds and whales before land creatures is stated in Gen 1:20-25. Yet the assumption that this sequence is meant to impose a supernatural creation timeline that is superior to contradictory scientific evolutionary sequence is unjustified, and IMO it is wrong to use this to pressure a choice favoring blind faith that contradicts sensible science. Gen 1:29-31 is given in the manner of summarizing. Therefore I dispute the implication that unwavering acceptance of scriptural decree is sacrosanct and more valid than contradictory science.

    Furthermore, Gen 2:5 (And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.) is unmistakable ideation, i.e. metaphysical conceptualization at the very least, if not genuine involutionary dynamics. Hence I consider much of your voluminous output feeble and moot.
     
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  17. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that you believe that the earth is old?
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I have no interested in attacking your religion - it's your religion!

    But, nothing in science "supports" any religion. What one might say is that your religion is consistent with science in that respect.

    Scientists have more than one view on the future of our universe. I think they say it is most likely that the universe will just cool off with everything pretty much evaporating with even atoms and subatomic particles decaying leaving energy spread across an eternity of some sort.

    But, that's not the only idea from science on the future of our universe. It might just be eternal! Or, a specific kind of event could cause atoms to fall apart in an event that would spread across he universe at light speed - thus being totally indetectable and with all atoms simply not being atoms anymore. At least it would be painless and allow literally 0 seconds to worry. Or, maybe this universe could reconstitute itself.

    Figuring this out is really hard. It's perhaps not as hard as looking back to the origins of the expansion called the "big bang", but ...

    I don't see that as "supporting" your religion. It might not even be consistent with your religion - depending on what you choose as your religion.
     
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I would say that is is most likely allegorical.

    Allegory has been a prominent method of passing down truths seemingly throughout the history of mankind. So, it may not be literal, yet still have meaning. Of course, without the cultural context of the day it's pretty hard to determine the meaning sometimes.

    Theologians discuss the meaning of the Eden allegory.
     
  20. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Science considers the earth to be about 4.5 billion years old in a universe that is about 14 billion years old. Those figures seem respectable until somebody can offer better methods of determining something different. Observable sedimentation rates certainly don't seem to support the notion that the earth is only about 6,000 years old.
     
  21. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Allegories are abundant in scripture, but I'm not aware of any that provide a better understanding of Gen 2:5
     
  22. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I have to question why an all powerful God doesn't provide the truth directly to his people as opposed to revelations provided to selected individuals, i.e., self proclaimed prophets.
     
  23. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Also with science we have radiometric dating.
     
  24. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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  25. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    For the same reason we don't try to teach the physics of locomotion to a toddler who is learning to walk.
     
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