Could somebody address this issue with 'the wall'?

Now, for the border issue. NOBODY is interested in an open border. NOBODY.

Let's remember that under Obama we got to a BIPARTISAN agreement on immigration that included $40B for the southern border, a reworking of our visa system (which is how HALF have come here, leaving the wall NOT a solution), and a reworking of employment requirements, reducing the reason people come here (other than those seeking asylum). That addresses THREE major entry issues - not Trump's singular focus on a small section of wall.

That bill passed the Senate, where Republicans such as Rubio supported it (as he was an author). It would have passed the House had Republican speaker Boehner not blocked it from coming to a vote.


Dems and many Republicans have worked for and voted for WAY MORE than Trump and the republican Senate is allowing.

You can't blame that on Democrats.

 

Well the walls are very moveable, just pull up a segment with a crane, have the backhoe dig another trench a few yards back insert the segment and refill.

The problem is we need to change the "one toe" policy.

 

I think people who build along our national borders, our state borders maybe even county and city borders realize that the government may very possibly exert some control over the section which runs up to that border. I know I would.

 

The open southern border is a much more significant security risk.

 

How am I wrong ??? Do you support Trump’s efforts to eliminate the $400B that China steals from US citizens every year ??

 

Absolutely. People have been killed by people walking across the border illegally.

 

I recognize the problem as being serious.

I don't see Trump as being capable of creating a policy direction that will mitigate the problem.

For example, he abandoned the idea of creating a US led trade agreement with Pacific nations, ignoring the additional influence that broad regional US-led trade agreement brings. And, his tariff war ideas are befuddling anyone with actual international economics expertise.

His capability of judging response by other nations has been just plain pathetic.

 

Correcting trade issues is the way most beneficial to US citizens. That is all that is important. The tariffs are the stick to encourage the Chinese to stop stealing $400B a year from US citizens.

The only way to handle trade is by individual agreements with each country.

His handling of these trade agreements has been exemplary. The only trade agreement remaining is China which was almost done until the totalitarian Chinese communist hardliners shut it down.

 

And what nations are those?

 

Austria, Hungary, Greece, France, Bulgaria are some.

 

They're all constructing Walls? not fences or some other form of electric barrier or surveillance thing. Where are Hungary and Bulgaria's

 

Barriers to illegal immigration by securing the border.

Hungary’s and Bulgaria’s are on their borders.

 

Eminant domain takes private land- AND PAYS FOR IT. While there is certainly inconvenience, it's not outright seizure. And if you don't like what the government offers- it goes to arbitration or court. I
I've been a witness for a landowner in such a situation, and I've had fami

Which makes them the real racists- the people promoting it, prolonging it

 

But- before you can implement a plan, you must have an orderly control. IF the people coming to your door won't allow that, then you have no choice but to secure that door and force orderly entry.
That is what the wall is about- it's not an effort to prevent immigration, but one to allow us to control immigration. We don't need a wall on the north, because we do not have a similar problem on the north.
Trump hasn't made a wall necessary- the people entering from the south thta refuse to respect our border have. They continue to do that for one reason- we do not have control there. That IS the fault of democrats, both for refusing to allow controls to be properly put in place, and for arguing that it's reasonable to allow millions of people to come in without permission.

While I haven't read the legislation you refer too- I suspect that it had more to do with reducing controls than putting them in place. Th nasty mess with the asylum thing came directly as a result of regulations put in place with Obama- but the resulting surge has fallen on Trump.... so the democrats use that as a weapon against Trump and never mention where the problem came from.

Things only get done right when people work together and cooperate. There has to be reason, common sense- and above all focus on what's right for the nation in the long run, rather than what's right for me or my party right now. Keep waiting for some notable democrat to come forward and speak in favor of that instead of promoting the magic bus ride to fantasy land. Hasn't happened yet.

 

Exactly. The Democratic Party identity politics platform is dependent on projecting the racism of 100 years ago onto the present.

 

There is really too much here to deal with, without writing a whole book. I will, however, respond to the part about China.

Certainly, China's economy is expanding rapidly--and could even surpass that of the US before too long, if the current trajectory continues.

However, China's regard for human rights is--to put it mildly--abysmal. Thoroughly abysmal.

Would anyone, therefore, really wish to abandon the American model, and adopt the Chinese model?

Unfortunately, the part about hard work and sacrifice is true.

The WWII generation accepted these virtues much more readily than today's Baby Boomers, Generation Xers, and Millenials do.

 

NO. The idea that we have to do unplanned maneuvers in order to provide some pure environment for planning is ridiculous.

We need a plan. And, we HAVE one - a bipartisan plan that passed the Senate and would have passed the House had Boehner not blocked it.

Republicans who demand that there be no plan are NOT "working together to cooperate".

And, yes as long as there is no plan, things aren't going to work well. Trump certainly demonstrates that.

 

I see no reason to say the republicans don't have a plan- but a bad plan is a plan for disaster, not success. That is where we are now- unable to institute a plan because we can't control the border because the dems block every effort to to anything except open it further to anybody who wants to walk across. That IS a plan for disaster.

If you assume that the democrats had a good plan.... I would wonder whose word you took for that. Rachel Maddow maybe?

 

I certainly hope not!

Amen to this second part.

We do seem to have become a collection "me" generations.

 

Republians absolutely do NOT have a plan for anything related to immigration.

All we're seeing is one off actions by a president who takes individual actions without achieving any agreement.

We "can't institute a plan" because Republican Senators are totally ineffecutal, waiting to do what Trump wants. And, Trump has absolutely NO interest in a plan.

We DID have a president who was interested in an immigration plan. The result was that the Senate constituted a bipartisan committee that developed a plan. That plan passed the Senate and would have passed the House had Boehner not blocked it.

You can still read that bill of 2013. Nothing about it is "out of date".

You can critiize that plan. Feel free. Do you think $40Billion was too little for the southern border? Do you not like enforcing e-verify? Do you not like tightening our visa program? Go for it!

BUT, you can NOT suggest that there is something other than Trump and the Republicans blocking the creation of a plan.

 

There can be no plan without first securing the southern border. Trump is not blocking that necessary first step.

 

That is absolutely NOT a requirement for a plan.

And, that is made clear by the very fact of the bipartisan immigration bill that passed the Senate and that the Republican Speaker blocked by maneuvers in the House.

 

Of course it is. What is clear is that it was blocked because there was no requirement to secure the border first.

 

But there has been a plan in place for decades- which Obama distorted, and dems have supported the law but demanded Trump not enforce it. It's a mess, no doubt.

On May the 16th, the white house announced that a broad outline for immigration reforms would soon be announced, focusing toward merit based immigration.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/president-trumps-bold-immigration-plan-21st-century/

On the 11th of this month,
Senior White House adviser Jared Kushner told Senate Republicans Wednesday that the party should unite behind a 600-page immigration plan he crafted ahead of the 2020 election so the party can provide a positive vision for reform. There IS a plan. It is a big departure from the current system, and that is one of two things that stand in the way of it's passing. The other is that the plan does not have a big "D:" on it, and therefore will be scorned without further consideration.

Of course the plan we have been working on is what has made such a mess of things in the first place. You don't fix such a failure with a band-aid or more of the same; it takes a major overhaul and a new way of thinking. That pretty well sets the left against it. I doubt if anything Trump endorses will get passed in a democratic congress- and I think that after the next election, three things will be true.

There will be a republican house and senate.
The people will have had enough of the BS, and are going to demand action.
The people in the GOP that are sitting on the fence will be backing Trump.

Then- we will have a number of major things getting done that are impossible to do now.

 

That's true. You can make a plan without a wall. Of course, since you don't control the border you don't have as snowball's chance in hell of actually being able to use or enforce your plan.

That is, unless your plan is like the California version, which is "Yall just come on in...."

There are a number of plans that would stop illegal immigration without a wall- but you wouldn't like them either.