Credit-card economics

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by pjohns, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that President Trump (whose policies I usually like) and the Democrats in Congress have colluded to put more money on our national credit card--in other words, to spend money that has not yet been taken in by the federal government.

    This means that our children, grandchildren, and great (even great-great) grandchildren will be paying for our current desires.

    And the so-called "debt limit" is really a sad joke: It is just routinely raised every year.

    I am a proud Republican; but, in all candor, I will have to say that the Republicans have been no less inclined than the Democrats to go along with this charade.

    Perhaps it is all because The Political Class (which I thoroughly despise!) can get re-elected only by pleasing today's voters--and not by worrying about the effect upon future generations (who, in many cases, have not even been born yet).
     
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  2. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the Democrats colluded in the Trump tax cuts for the rich.

    The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released its Budget and Economic Outlook today, projecting high and rising deficits and debt over the next decade and beyond.

    CBO’s report shows:

    • Debt held by the public will increase by more than $12.5 trillion under current law over the next decade – from $16.1 trillion today to $28.7 trillion by 2029.
    • Debt as a share of the economy will rise rapidly, from today’s post-war record of 78 percent of GDP to nearly 93 percent of GDP by 2029. Under CBO’s Alternative Fiscal Scenario (AFS), debt will reach 105 percent of GDP by 2029, approaching the all-time record set just after World War II.
    • Annual budget deficits will also steadily rise under current law, eclipsing $1.1 trillion by 2022 and reaching nearly $1.4 trillion late in the decade. Under the AFS, trillion-dollar deficits will return by next year and the budget deficit will exceed $2 trillion late in the decade. Depending on the scenario, budget deficits will range between about 4.5 percent of GDP to 7 percent by 2029.
    • Growing deficits and debt are the result of rising spending and depressed revenue. Under current law, spending will grow from 20.3 percent of GDP in 2018 to 22.7 percent by 2029 while revenue will remain around 17 percent of GDP through 2025 and rise to 18.3 percent by 2029, assuming many recent tax cuts expire. Under the AFS, revenue will remain at 17.0 percent of GDP in 2029 while spending rises to 23.8 percent.
    • Cumulative deficits through 2028 are projected to be $1.2 trillion lower under current law than in CBO’s last baseline from April 2018. The entire improvement can be attributed to two factors that may not ultimately materialize: lower assumed disaster spending and new tariffs imposed by the Administration.
    • CBO continues to project strong economic growth for 2019, but real annual growth will fall below 2 percent for most of the decade.
    CBO’s latest projections show that the fiscal situation will continue to deteriorate as a result of irresponsible tax and spending legislation and the growth of health, retirement, and interest spending. Lawmakers must act sooner rather than later to prevent the slower wage growth, higher interest payments, reduced fiscal space, and increased risk of fiscal crisis that would likely occur on our current path.

    Deficits and Debt
    CBO projects debt will rise by more than $12.5 trillion over the next decade, from $16.1 trillion today to $28.7 trillion by 2029. As a share of GDP, debt will rise from a post-war record-high of 78 percent of GDP today – about twice the historic average – to 93 percent of GDP by 2029. CBO projects debt will reach record levels by 2035 and eclipse 150 percent of GDP in three decades.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The problem is spending. Taxes should be cut - a lot - along with spending.
     
  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Well I think that is The Republican plan. To cut programs that aid the poor and middle class to pay for the tax cuts that benefitted primarily the rich.
     
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  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. I didn't criticize social spending. I just don't think it belongs in federal government Move it to the states and I'm fine with it.
     
  6. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both parties spend like a thief with a stolen credit card. I don't know how our citizens can force them to be responsible. Here in CA, they keep voting for higher taxes!
     
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  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What are you going to cut?
     
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    So, you think Florida, Texas, Arizona, and California are all set to pick up the tab--Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for retirees? Won't happen if for no other reason that it can't happen.
     
  9. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    'Entitlements'

    You aren't entitled to anything. This isn't the USSR.
     
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  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid (40% of it goes to indigents in nursing homes). Good luck with that one. Something close to two-thirds of Americans say taxes should be increased rather than cut Medicare and Social Security benefits. Those programs have 80% approval.
     
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  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Social spending. Most cabinet departments. Not necessarily cut, though. Just moved away from federal government.
     
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I would say they have a choice to pick them up. SS and Medicare aren't entitlements. They are benefits paid by people over their working life with specific taxes. It can happen. Easily. It won't happen to be sure.
     
  13. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    The GOP only talks about smaller government and lower spending when they don't have control. Once they have control, they are no different that the DNC. Some things that might help, term limits, repeal 17th amendment, maybe a couple others. No one is going to pay off that debt, sometime or another it will be written off as bad debt along with the resulting financial crisis. Some of our USA haters will love to see that, but they are short sighted. They just don't see the cascade affect. Many hated Rome, but when Rome fell chaos ensued .
     
  14. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What are we to do with people from states that don't have SS and Medicare? What if after they retire they move to a state that has them? Why not have a national program?
     
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  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Why are you opposed to theoretically self-funding programs like SS and Medicare?

    We need to spend more money in some departments to fund building infrastructure, improve education, etc.
     
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  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Because the recipients already paid for it by paying FICA taxes over their work life
    Perhaps but not with the federal government. Federal government doesn't own much infrastructure and doesn't educate anyone. These things should be done at the state level. Because something is needed certainly doesn't suggest that federal government is right place to do it. Federal government should do those things that the it can do better than the states - deal and treat with other countries, protect the country with a military, maintain a system of currency and provide for inter state issues. That is what it did when it was founded. It has grown into an incompetent monster.
     
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Government and most Americans cannot give up the cash teat. Life is so much more fun when we spend and we have little accountability for debt so no surprise debt increases. And today debt has become an insurmountable problem! Even if government stopped it's $1 trillion per year deficit spending, and created another $500 BILLION in surplus to pay down debt, it would take decades to pay down our debt. The concept of 'decades' does not resonate with most people so 'out of sight out of mind'. BTW; just eliminating the current $1 TRILLION in deficit spending will remove approximately 10 million jobs from Americans...not a chance in hell this will happen! So tighten the economic seat belts and hope the crash is not too bad...
     
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  18. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Then at least one of these factors needs to be changed.

    As an analogy, I have a credit card--and I use it frequently (as a mere convenience)--but it is set up for automatic debit of the full amount each month. I do not wish to pay interest (and interest upon the interest, even)--as well as having debt that just snowballs on top of itself.

    It would be nice if our president and Congress were equally responsible.

    But I really do not hold out high hopes. (After all, they just wish to placate current voters.)
     
  19. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    This is the key!

    Simply creating a "balanced budget"--which, admittedly, would be a good start--is not enough.

    Some people seem to confuse that with actually paying off the national debt.

    And, of course, they are not the same thing.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Republicans outspend and add to the national debt a much larger percentage than do democrats. Mainly because they spend just as much as democrats, but they also slash revenues (tax cuts) at the same time.
     
  21. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Tell the poor to pay some tax, to foot the bill
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Taxes should not be cut. They need raised. Spending should most definitely be cut. We can start by cutting defense spending in half, and closing all foreign bases.
     
  23. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    That isn’t how those programs work. They paid for precious generations. Current generations pay for people on SS and Medicare. It’s not like a 401k that you draw from.


    As a nation, those programs are absolutely more efficiently done at the federal level. Else you would have a slew of uneducated and illiterate states.
     
  24. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Send in a check
     
  25. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    With what money?
     
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