DAMNED if we do. DAMNED if we Don't.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Just_a_Citizen, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Do you really expect the current crop of Republicans to give them anything to cry about? I don't.
     
  2. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Donor

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    Is that a prediction that the democrats will win in 2020?

    I don't have any idea how it will turn out, and won't be making any predictions, but I will be begging the cosmos to allow it to happen just one more time before I pass on.
     
  3. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    No, it's a prediction that if the Republicans win, they'll fall all over themselves appeasing the Dems.
     
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  4. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Donor

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    Damn. Now that is a possibility and that makes ME cry!:x
     
  5. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Some people just don't see insanity like open borders, 70% tax rates, tax hikes, reparations, free healthcare and education for illegals, outsourcing, a war on Christians and Christianity, a war on whites, a war on men, a war on 2nd amendment etc as being in their self-interest.... Speaking of self-interests, Americans are significantly better off now than they were 3 years ago and things keep getting better.... That's all one needs to know about self-interest
     
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  6. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    The only thing that makes ownership of guns an issue is fanatics who fear them and want to destroy them.
    A gun has never shot anybody on it's own- it is only a weapon when a PERSON makes it one. It is people who bring evil about, not inanimate objects- people who are so determined to control others that they promote dangerous conditions. Unless you are a fool, you know that is it not the gun you should fear- it's the person with malice in their heart, and the variety of weapons that person may implement include things as innocent as the pencil on your desk.

    More people are killed with hammers and clubs that with all types of rifles combined. The hammer in your utility drawer is locked down and registered, right?

    A narrow mind is never found in a wise person.
     
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  7. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Then why did they more votes than Trump when they ran a criminal against him.
     
  8. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    You don't have to be a member of either party to vote in the general election. Take a look at the history of the Democratic Party. You'll see that when the Democratic Party was the big tent party they averaged approximately 45% of the electorate from 1942 until 1984. Then they kicked out their conservatives although that had been going on for some time. From 1985 through 2008 the Democrats average 35% of the electorate, in 2010 the democrats threw their blue dogs, moderates out of the party. Today they are down below 30% of the total electorate.

    What has saved them is the Republican Party has failed to expand in any form. Roughly staying between 25-30% from 1958 through today. What has increased is the number of independents. 18% of the electorate in 1942, 29% in 1984, 32% in 2008 up to 42% today. The Republican Party has been fairly static, almost a flat line. The Democratic Party has been slowly shrinking.

    https://www.people-press.org/interactives/party-id-trend/

    Sure, the Democratic Party is still the larger party and has been since FDR. But their edge has shrunk to 29-27 as of 12 July 2019. A far cry from the 51-28 advantage over Republicans in 1961 or 44-25 advantage in 1982 or the 36-25 advantage in 2008.

    Independents can either vote Republican or Democrat. They did so in 2016 giving Trump the White House by a 46-42 margin over Hillary with 12% voting third party against both major party candidates. Independents made up 40% of the total electorate in 2016, the Democrats 30% and the Republicans 27%.
     
  9. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    and you saying there politics are driving people away. I am saying that more and more people are declaring themselves independent. I am a progressive and I am a registered independent. My oldest Brother is a conservative and he is a registered independent.
     
  10. therooster

    therooster Well-Known Member

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    Ha Ha Ha... do u ever smile...
     
  11. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    Could be. I do think the continued rightward movement of the Republican Party and the continued leftward movement of the Democratic Party has left those in between, ideologically, without a political party to call home. This is those in the center, center right and center left, call them moderates if you will. Mainstream America who want the two major parties to work together for the good of the country, not go around fighting each other all the time. I do think with the shrinkage we're left with just the hard core in each party which gives up candidates such as Trump and Clinton. Unless you live in an open primary state, independents can't vote in either the Republican or Democratic primaries. You have to be registered as one or the other and vote in the primary you're registered in. Apparently neither you nor your brother can vote in either primary unless as I stated you live in an open primary state.
     
  12. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks. You saved me some keystrokes. We Independents will decide this one.
     
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    While the country I was born and raised in turns to Nazi Germany? The hilarity never ends.
     
  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    It will take years for the damage from the BLOTUS's illconceived tariffs to work their way out of the system.
     
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  15. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Even if a Dem wins in 2020 it may take as long as 10 years to undo the damage the Orange Turd has wrought. Think about, not just the loss of qualified people working in various positions for the government, but all the people for whom the desire to serve one's country has been diminished because of this lying, corrupt, narcissist. That's the tip of the iceberg. The stain of this conman's presidency will remain on our history and in material ways for years.
     
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  16. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you can't tell big fat lies from facts. The left is disappointing. But trump really is doing irreparable damage to everything from the environment to the social fabric of the country. How many presidents have called for extreme torture, the mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent people, how many have declared their love for brutal killers?

    What is wrong with you? Doesn't any of this matter?
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While the above is true - this happened long ago in the GOP and Trump has not improved the situation.

    I am hard core anti Establishment - and that Establishment consists of both Red and Blue elite politicians and bureaucrats - with big money interests at the top pulling the strings.

    In the last election Hillary was a known commodity - a tried and true Establishment wonk. With Trump - anyone with more than a smattering of knowledge about the dude should have realized that he was likely an Establishment wonk but, we did not know that for sure.

    Now we know for sure.

    So where does this leave those of us wanting some of the systemic issues in our system addressed ? - a people without a home .. that's where.

    I would vote for Gabbard if she was the nominee - but that is not going to happen. Very few others on the Dem side meet my anti Establishment criteria so .. I may just flip a coin .. knowing that the outcome matters not.
     
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The damage done by Trump can be fixed in very short order - the will however to undo this damage is simply not there. Trump is not living in some bubble - many of his actions were on the basis of what the Establishment wanted done.

    Trump is not the only Goblin in the hallowed hall of power - and many of those Goblins are Blue.

    Obama and Hillary were lying, corrupt narcissist - they just hid it better - and that a fact Jack .. and that is also the tip of the iceberg.
     
  19. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This has been going on since before the Obama election. It just didn't make a lot of difference because the races(elections) weren't that close. I think it is quite wrong to allow citizens of an authoritarian communist country to vote. I think it's wrong for anyone to vote, who does not have singular citizenship in the USA. They have much less skin in the game. They would rather attempt to rip apart our powerful nation because they hate us for getting involved in the business of other countries around the world.

    I don't blame them for that hatred. I think we should, for the most part, mind our own and let them mind their own. At issue is, we don't want to stay out of it until we have another world war, like we did before. The problem with that is, we think we know better than anyone else how they should live and be governed. We don't.

    This is why I do not like globalists ideas. Someone in the USA cannot understand the day to day of a nation half way across the world. Crimes of humanity are different. Why we have to be the only nation that cares about those things, I don't know. However, we only seem to care when there is something to be gained strategically or monetarily. I'm ashamed of our leaders for that reason.

    We do need change, but not the change that is touted by the left. The least informed of the left are pawns of the most powerful. They trust when they should not. It doesn't matter who is in charge. When there is as much power and wealth to be gained as there is in US politics, there is no way to keep from taking away liberty, as they do after each successive congressional or presidential election.

    Feds have too much power, but those on the left want them to have all the power. It's what they believe in. They think the feds will make this some sort of utopia, but they cannot do that because we are all individuals with different needs and wants. We cannot choose for others what will make them happy. They want to take away that fundamental right to pursue our personal happiness through federal elections.

    States rely so much on the feds for income, there is no need to worry about them. It doesn't matter much who is elected because they must do as told by the feds, or lose money they need and want.

    It's a nation with disease and it's spreading. Those on the left seem to think folks are inherently good. It's actually the complete opposite.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    I sometimes wonder if defenders of the Divider-in-Chief would have anything to say at all if not for the constant false equivalences they use.

    "many of his actions were on the basis of what the Establishment wanted done." The opposite is true.
     
  21. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Absolutely not true.

    https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

    It's frightening see Trumpist's post these factual inaccuracies (this time about voter fraud) day after day. It's a testament to right wing propaganda.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not a defender of Trump - I hate the guy - and your demonization tactic of labeling anyone who says something your brain can not deal with as some kind of Trump lover is lame.

    What false equivalency ? Obviously you have no clue what the establishment is if you do not realize that many of Trumps actions are Establishment driven - tax cuts for the rich for starters - no addressing of the systemic issues - maintaining the status quo with respect to the attacks on individual liberty and so on.

    The fact of the matter is that you can't handle the truth - you live in a world of necessary illusion and spoon fed propaganda and you drink down the Koolaid as if it was mothers milk.

    Trump is a scum bucket - got it - but Trump is a symptom of a much larger problem - a problem that you can't bear to face.
     
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  23. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Much of what that says is that people are either embracing more irrational ideas, or greatly disapproving of the platforms of the formal parties. I think it is both- and of course it is gets harder to form a coalition of support when the level of rational perception among people is declining. People have to want to be reasonable in order for reasonable logic to prevail. Sadly, I have to believe that our society is losing in maturity- in the ability to be realistic and practical in our approach to life.

    I'm seeing this in a wide variety of ways- people are just not able to act as wisely as they would have say 50 years ago. We have things like the barrage of telemarketers who have forgone live pitchmen and turned to recorded messages. Now when someone has the gall to interrupt your workday to try and sell you something and so lacks respect for you that they make their pitch with a recording- there is a point to consider. The only reason they keep doing it is because enough of the public actually responds to that to keep it profitable. Look at tweets and forum posts, and you realize how many people today can't spell at a fifth grade level. I printed out a recipe just yesterday- and noticed it called for "2 cups of flower". Go to the store, and you see how many can't actually count, and get confused over basic math. Item is two for $1... and they can't figure out how much one is. Scanners and computers are making such people employable. We have college grads who can't pass grade school exams from 100 years ago. This does not say we lack the capacity; it says our education process is turning into a sponge full of holes, and we are giving diplomas to people who aren't fully educated.

    When you can't use the tool between your ears with skill, you are going to produce some pretty crappy results, and lack the ability to recognize that fact.
     
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  24. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I worked the elections. I didn't interview people who had a reason to lie. I immediately reported what I believed was an issue and quit working the elections.

    Therefore, anything anyone posts in regards to defending my assertions means nothing to me.
     
  25. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Obama and Hillary were lying, corrupt narcissist - they just hid it better - and that a fact Jack .. and that is also the tip of the iceberg."

    As much as Trump apologists continue to try to make one there is no equivalence between Trump's dishonesty and any other US politician who has ever lived.
     

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