Delusions in a Godless Universe

I would call that a delusion, or human fantasy. In REALITY, human exploitation and dominance has been Standard Fare, in the human experience. Seldom (if ever), has hand holding, kumbaya singing, hippie commune delusion even come close in restraining the aggressive nature of man.

Pick a country. Pick an era. Pick any culture. ALL of human history is characterized by actual human aggression, exploitation, and dominance. 'Love and Flowers!' peace and harmony is an obvious delusion.

No, power, strength, and conviction have always been superior to platitudes.

 

Where do you get the idea that exploitation and supremacy are positive survival traits in a social species?

 

What you choose to call it does not matter. Cooperation is more prevalent than exploitation. We wouldn't have survived as a social species if that were not the case. Your faith-based claims are fine for your to hold as purely faith-based claims, but they are incompatible with empirical reality.

 

Pick any of those cultures and eras, none could exist and function without cooperation.

 

It's all faith claims and unsubstantiated claims of "self evident!" The best you'll get is some version of "I'm right unless you prove me wrong," a method of argument he has called out as fallacious elsewhere. Unfortunately.

 

Nevermind. You can have all the 'meaning!', 'love!', !morality!', and 'significance!' you can muster. ..all in a meaningless, amoral, godless universe...

 

You still don't understand. You make the faith-based claim that there can be no meaning or morality without God (never mind for the moment that the belief that morality and meaning must come from God is actually self-contradictory, as God himself would have no basis for morality or meaning without an additional, superior God, ad infinitum). The rest of us are under no obligation to accept your faith. You offer no evidence or logic to defend these beliefs.

 

Why couldn’t you? People can create their own meaning. In fact, people do that every day.

Morality is already subjective and not universal.

Love exists in many forms across a wide differing spectrum that is likewise subjective.

Significance is about the most subjective thing that could possibly exist.

 

..oh, and 'irrationality', seems to be linked with this propensity for delusion.

Don't attack me, for the implications of your worldview. It's not my fault that you cling to delusional remnants of a God ordered universe, as you transition to a godless one.

I'll be your scapegoat, for a while. But it's not my fault if you can't follow the conclusions of your own beliefs.

It does confirm to me, that it impossible to reason with ideologues.. of any philosophical belief .

 

Why do you keep clinging to this false definition of “delusion”? Just because a belief is irrational or incorrect, that doesn’t mean it is a delusion.

So long as you cling to that false definition as the center of your argument, you are arguing against a strawman.

 

No one is attacking you. We're attacking your "argument," in as much as it exists in the first place. You've shown no such "implications." You've only made faith-based claims, contradicted by evidence, about such implications.

God is a poor explanation for meaning and morality, for reasons already provided in other discussions and completely avoided.

It isn't our fault you can't actually, rationally demonstrate these conclusions and instead insist on statements of faith and eyeroll emojis.

 

Nevermind. You can believe in you sesame street fantasies of sharing, love, and harmony, if you wish...

 

Well, evolutionary biology and basic game theory demonstrate that cooperative behavior is not a fantasy. Reality disagrees with you. Your Saturday-morning-cartoon-villain version of nature is pure make-believe. Reality has already proven your faith-based claims wrong.

 

What you don’t seem to get is that you in this thread are trying to argue a caricature of an atheist rather than actually look at the logic behind an atheist’s arguments.

We don’t think theists are all mentally ill because they believe in god. We just think you are wrong, that your evidence doesn’t support the claims you are making, and that definitely you shouldn’t be able to enforce anything based on your religion in law.

Your OP breaks down because you failed to follow through with your “assumptions”: even if we “assume a godless universe” unless you are also assuming that everyone in that universe would have perfect knowledge of its true nature, then no, being religious would not be a delusion. It would be incorrect, it would be counter-factual, but it wouldn’t be a delusion because people wouldn’t know if the universe was godless or not for a certainty.

 

Redefine the thread, and arguments however you wish.. it exemplifies the human traits of 'love!', 'sharing!', and 'harmony!' very well..

 

Name a single society that has even had functional families without cooperation.

 

You realize that exploitation and supremacy in past cultures have been detrimental to social survival as they lead to wars, massacres, etc, yes?

It is only when humanity cooperates that we flourish and survival is protected.

 

Yes, i am 'Attacking Atheists!!!'
..as you constantly accuse.

Enjoy your fallacies, and distortions.. i will not take them seriously. If you can't debate like a rational human, i will not treat you like one..

 

Disrupt, deflect, ad hom.. anything to divert attention from the impotence of arguments.

Reason is dying, in Progresso World..

 

Hey, look at that. Selective quoting rather than addressing the whole of my post.

Is this the intellectual integrity that can be expected from a Christian? Are you a Liar for Jesus?

 

Why do these delusions persist? Human psychology. Humans are not the best natural assessors of nature. It is actually surprising that we are as capable as we are at it. Science is the real miracle and something truly to be treasured.

 

I pointed out a massive hole in the logic of your OP. You chose to selectively quote my post rather than address it.

The “disruption” seems to be coming from the Liar for Jesus.

 

Name any society that has never had dysfunctional families. That is irrelevant to the point.

 

Ah, now.. no need to go full bore for the 'atheists vs Christians!' Flame war. I've included no 'Christian!' beliefs, or assumptions, in this thread. ..the opposite, in fact. So attacking me with religious bigotry is inappropriate, and probably against forum rules.. though attacking 'Christians!' is always en vogue...

 

Families are the basic unit of human societies. They function and survive only through cooperation.

Cooperation and the behaviors that support and propagate cooperation are beneficial to survival as a species.