Denial of Service? Just say no.

Bollocks ...

 

I gather you mean on a personal level within a country. Because on a country level, your sentiment ain't so.

There are rules for trading amongst nations, and they are managed by the World Trade Organization in Geneva.

Dispute settlement gateway, WTO, here:

 

You are naive and uninformed of the facts, which I tried to show in vivid display.

And, it's your choice clearly to believe them or not. But also selfishly incomprehensible.

You live by yourself out in the woods of northern Alaska ... ?

 

And people who will turn down business because they don't like the customer are exactly the same. All the "Christian" cake seller had to do was just say, "Hey, ya know I'm really too busy right now...." or somesuch, just as soon as the gay couple asked for "Congrats Bruce and Lenny" on the Wedding Cake but people like that NEVER try to spare someone's feelings. Much better to say "Do you not realize that GA-HAWD finds SODOMY to be ABOMINATION?". The 100 Large should be a stupidity fee and totally non-refundable

 

Oh, he said that too? Wow!

Can't wait to see him the next time he comes around. And laughs at what since as happened.

It is amazing to see how much religion - which was intended from the very beginning - to be averted from having any political influence whatsoever has managed to do just that.

It is far, far better for a people to keep religion separate from law. As any European country will tell you who have paid dearly in deaths over "differences of opinion" as regards the True God ...

 

Yes, those exact words, I was there and recorded the whole thing on my phone. I also had an aide listening who made a transcript.

He "thundered" it while actually pounding his Bible, and I'd always thought that a metaphor for what priests do while watching the Altar Boys change.

 

Price gouging during emergencies is legal in your world?

But that's not really the issue now is it? It might be reasonable to say no to a job because of pay. It might be reasonable not to work with someone because they would be a bad boss. But it's another thing to say you don't want to work with someone because they are doing something unrelated to the profession? That's a different line because it crosses from what is purely public into a private matter. A person's race is not a public spectacle, a person's gender is not for the public, and religious ideas are not meant to be public. The caveat of course is when they interfere with the job, but even then that's a high standard to have to work with.

 

I really don't think of myself or others, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than as individuals. Some individuals simply can't leave it at "no thank you". It's lately been being referred to as a "derangement syndrome".

 

No one is at all obligated to give their reasoning for what they do not do. Just say no, and leave it at that.

I am a contractor. When I meet a potential customer, I'm interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing me.
They have no more of an obligation to disclose their reasoning as to why they don't want to trade with me as I have to disclose my reasoning for not wanting to trade with them.

 

Giving reason is not the same thing as not having a justifiable reason. If you can't justify, how can you deny services without resorting to being an animal?

 

No one is obligated to justify their reasoning for not trading with someone else.

 

DISCRIMINATION IN COMMERCE

According to the 14th Amendment, there should be no public discrimination in any market-economy (whatever the transaction). What does the 14 Amendment State? This:

A business is a public-entity and therefore no preselection of customers should be allowed in the matter of race or sex of anyone exercising their right to purchase goods/services. (Which is why the Internet solves that problem amazingly well for some parts of the consuming public).

If one wants to "discriminate" in any commercial manner, then they should do so privately and not publicly. Which means that any "public place of commerce" is forbidden to discriminate based upon colour or religious affectation - as long as they are citizens of the US.

This distinction is necessary because all citizens have the fundamental right in law to shop without any attendant discrimination whatsoever ...

*It will surprise people amazingly that the 14th amendment was passed in the 19th century (from here).The 14th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868, and granted citizenship to “all persons born or naturalized in the United States,” which included former slaves recently freed. (Surprise, surprise! That was ONLY 150 years ago!)

 

I am highly discriminating. I can be. I'm a stone mason. Try finding a good stone mason. Go ahead, try.

 

REFUSAL TO TRADE

That depends. From here: What does “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone” really mean? - excerpt:

So, before refusing service, be careful - ask a lawyer or your state-AG office. Otherwise you risk a tedious and possibly costly day-in-court ...

 

I have employed plenty of them. I've built one house in the US and four here in France. Never had a problem with the Muslims from North African French-colonies. Some of which have become citizens, others not.

Yes, I know, stonemasons don't build houses anymore, but they once did. You build houses mostly out of wood in the US. Here in Europe, both houses and cathedrals were built by stonemasons. (From which the Masonry Movement was born long-ago.)

Most here are very artful because, like you evidently, they chisel whole statues and structure-finishes out of rock. France has churches in abundance that date back more than 1500 years. (And with the fire in the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, there is plenty of work. You might want to think of applying - I've read that real-stonemasons here are hard to find because they are mostly employed already elsewhere.)

We build houses predominantly out of stone-blocks. So, there is little artwork involved. Just slap&cement the blocks together. Nobody discriminates against the workers who barely earn the minimum-wage, but until recently they were not exactly "on the same" level as native-French. Most of the migrants/immigrants have come from Muslim countries, ex-French colonies. A very minor percentage are black-Africans also from ex-French African colonies. France is thus unique in Europe to the migration from Africa.

Like most anywhere, they are all starting from the bottom and working their way up - mostly through their offspring. Still, the trend is clearly there, just a bit faster (my opinion) than stateside. Remember, there are two kinds of migrants. The down-and-out gotta-get-outta-here - and the smart-ones whom we employ from India because they went to university almost free-gratis-and-for-nothing.

Now, you tell me why we can't do that in the US! Why should our kids have to compete with foreigners who get their tertiary-level degrees almost for nothing! We need badly to expand tertiary-level education at very-low-cost state-schools ...

PS: The human-species migrates and has done so since the dawn of time, which is how this planet got populated (since two-million years when the migration started from out-of-Africa). Next step, some friendly planet in the universe!

 

There are laws regarding hiring. I have stated them in this forum.

What I am saying is that in some circumstances US law dictates whom you can and cannot refuse as a customer ...

 

Well, there's you...

I once worked with an Italian stonemason who was functioning as a bricklayer. He had to stop and rest so me and one other guy, who was the overall boss of our small crew, could keep him in mortar, and we were working hard. Perfect work too.

 

But you are!

You (we) were born into a family, that lived in town/city/district of a state that is part of a nation. You are a member of a group up-and-down that line.

So, if for any reason you really want to be alone and separate from any group whatsoever there are always the wilds of Alaska waiting for you.

Along with those brown furry creatures. Called, uh, bear.

(Great company, bears are ... stuffed! ;^)

No joke. They are running here in France those TV-shows on people who live in the wilds of Alaska, and my hat's off to their courage and tenacity ... !

 

Stonemasonry is a marvelous art. It puts life into stone. That's almost magic.

Michelangelo was an Italian stonemason, of sorts. But, he never worked in bricks.

Then, when he got fed-up with the political ruckus in Italy, he accepted a King François' invitation to France. Where, much later in life, he continued his "work", of sorts. His geniosity was overwhelming.

Very late in his life, the King François 1 asked him to design a staircase for his chateau at Chambord. It's both a work of art and high intelligence. The up and down staircases are intertwined but entirely separated one from the other by a wall between both. (Simoni was his family name, and he is buried in France. He never wanted to go back to Italy.)

If ever in France, it's well worth the drive out to Chambord (southwest of Paris) to see the castle - in which the King probably never spent more than a month or two every so often. Subsequent Kings prefered Fontainebleau and Versailles. It's no wonder that France has the largest number of
vacationers yearly - there is so very much to see (and taste) with which to be amazed ...

 

What does another person's income have anything to do with my own income?

 

I do not need a lawyer to defend my refusal of service. A lawyer may be needed to defend one's reasoning for their refusal of service, but I would never give my reasoning. I just say no.

 

You have some very good intentions; however, they're not so good that they should be imposed on others by force,
not even by force of law.

 

No US law "dictates whom [sic] you can and cannot refuse as a customer". There are US laws which prohibit particular reasons for refusing service; however, there is no US law that compels anyone to disclose their reasonings about anything at all.

 

I have been in business since 1985. I have been able to give a lifetime guarantee on everything that we've ever built.
I get a lot of satisfaction from the fact that everything that I've built is still there. In masonry terms, it's all brand new. Some of the oldest stuff is just now starting to get a patina on it.

 

If that's the strawman that you want to argue with, I'll step aside and left you discuss it with yourself.
I don't espouse the absurd extreme that you attribute to me.

I am not unaware of the fact that anyone can be cast as members of any of a number of groups (haplotype, gender, etc.), but I do not think of myself or others, first and foremost as members of groups rather than as individuals.