Did someone think 1984 was a blueprint....?

It doesn't matter what "we" Americans think about spying on our allies. It's how they feel about the US spying on them. And you can bet if their government is telling them the US is spying on them they will believe it. The same way so many here will believe our government when it denies spying on our allies is taking place. Even when the documents have been made available thanks to Snowden. Corrupt governments have a way of pitting citizens against citizens.

 

The same way Americans have not forgotten the Civil War, which took place in the 1860's, German's are taught in school what took place in their parent's/grandparent's lifetime. Their wounds are still oozing. If you have never been to Germany it's a great place. And it will give you an opportunity to have your question answered by someone who lived during Hitler's time.

 

Not quite.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html

The U. S. Constitution contains no express right to privacy. The Bill of Rights, however, reflects the concern of James Madison and other framers for protecting specific aspects of privacy, such as the privacy of beliefs (1st Amendment), privacy of the home against demands that it be used to house soldiers (3rd Amendment), privacy of the person and possessions as against unreasonable searches (4th Amendment), and the 5th Amendment's privilege against self-incrimination, which provides protection for the privacy of personal information. In addition, the Ninth Amendment states that the "enumeration of certain rights" in the Bill of Rights "shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people." The meaning of the Ninth Amendment is elusive, but some persons (including Justice Goldberg in his Griswold concurrence) have interpreted the Ninth Amendment as justification for broadly reading the Bill of Rights to protect privacy in ways not specifically provided in the first eight amendments.

 

Well I am not American, but no matter.

My point was that maybe it's a mind game? What better mind game than to have everyone paranoid and full of fear? The thing would not even need exist in reality, so long as people believed that it did. Like a sort of contemporary "god", people then regulate their behaviours around fear.

 

yes granted the right under the guise of national security.

you might want to wake up now.

 

so, american officials deny wholesale digital spying and "hint" that the Israelis were responsible and that is sufficient for you and the daily mail to claim it was Israel doing the spying? Figures you'd jump on something like that.

I have absolutely no doubt that Israel is engaged in digital spying, just like the UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, India, US, Canada, Australia, Japan etc. Every government with the capability is doing and I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised in a more limited fashion many corporations are doing it. (didn't a newspaper do it in the uK?)

 

And thanks to (*)(*)(*)(*) poor government examples, neighbors are spying on each other. What a sick f***** up world we are forced to deal with. Screw sick people!

 

There is no evidence at all to suggest that Canada et all have been spying against everyone + anyone, across the globe.

It is a gross invasion of privacy and lines have been crossed.

If we had leaders rather than lemmings(who are likely blackmailed anyway), they would be kicking proverbial arse over this.

 

Please feel free to speak what you actually think .Its ok truth touches everyone ,and its the only thing we have!

 

B.C. civil liberties group launches lawsuit over Canadian spying allegations

Brazil president says she'll ask Canadian government to explain alleged spying


Canadian spy agency sued for allegedly violating charter

Spying on Brazil is OK, almost half of Canadians say: poll

 

Canada spy on 30+ world leaders..?

 

Undoubtably. Unless you're going to contend that Canada has set up a large government agency and operated it for decades just to keep an eye on Brazil and some individuals in BC. Oh, and as you know they share info on private citizens with the UK, New Zealand, the US and Israel too with the above being the only ones they were caught at. At one tenth the size and capability of the US that is a lot so, we can assume they spy on everybody but are just better at it.

 

Apologies if this sounds like pseudo-intellectual wankery (it probably is).


When Orwell wrote "Nineteen-Eighty-Four" he had been inspired, if that's the word, by another book by a former Left winger called James Burnham. The book, "The Managerial Revolution", looked at what would happen beyond capitalism and Burnham argued it wasn't socialism. http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/james_burnham/


If you read Burnham's book - http://www.systemdns.us:9722/loc.sv...S/UN-Sorted/The-managerial-revolution-(2).pdf - you'll see the core of Orwell's argument. You can see the massive blocs Orwell referred to when he placed a small, broken, post-war Britain (Airstrip One) in on of those blocs. I think you can also see elements of Burnham in "Animal Farm" too but perhaps only a few.


Orwell was arguing against totalitarianism in the book, he was pointing out to a wilfully blind British Left that Stalin was a bastard. I can never read the book without seeing Uncle Joe's face every time I see the words "Big Brother".

Aside - another interesting thread Jack - kudos.

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Or the US is so large, so powerful as to not care if they get caught?

 

what security threat do you pose, specifically ?

 

Oh they care all right. Costs the man on the street millions every time Assange, Snowden or somebody reveals their activities.

 

you can't possibly be that naive. I guess you have never heard of CSIS.

yep.

Nope. espionage is as old as warfare. Those that are capable of doing it, do it.

New technologies have enabled spying on a truly massive scale.
Cultural norms and legal constructs have ALWAYS lagged behind technological innovation.
Combined, you get the NSA et.al. casting a global "web" of espionage.


Be outraged, but don't pretend to be naive.

 

irrelevant to the discussion.

you have seen over the past decade+ a huge amount of legislation that in other times probably would have been declared unconstitutional, that when placed under the guise of national security, miraculously become constitutional and not to be questioned.

Exactly how large is the American national security apparatus these days?

 

Look How many TV stations like Al Jazeera and radio shows (Tom Hartman, Mike Malloy, Pacifica Radio, Democracy Now, virtually all of the "Progressive" shows) use the Amnesty, Human Rights Watch groups to blame Assad for Americas Al Queda atrocities. Its complete reality reversal. An old trick - blaming the enemy for wars and terrorism caused by CIA trained mercenary thugs ... also these govmnt connected human rights groups "massage the numbers" (cut in half death casualty counts)

Human Rights Watch in Service to the War Party

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman /HRW_Yugoslavia.html


Amnesty International, War Propaganda, and Human Rights Terrorism

by Gearóid Ó Colmáin

"Amnesty International is a war propaganda organization for imperialism. In fact, the majority of the most highly publicized human rights organisations in the West function as ideological indoctrination agencies for neo-colonialism and imperialism."

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/08/amnesty-international-war-propaganda-and-human-rights-terrorism/


___________________________________________________



Obama’s Syrian Press Pass: The Media are Loyal to the System, not to their Profession




"The corporate media are the megaphones of humanitarian death, as dispensed by the U.S. and its allies. If Obama says “Assad must go,” the high-paid press do all in their power to make the public crave his blood. “The media are loyal to the system, not to their profession, their readers, or their listeners.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obamas...to-the-system-not-to-their-profession/5339949

_______________________________________________________

Qatar: US Proxy in America’s Terror War in Syria
By Phil Greaves

"This information again sheds further light on a timeline of events in Syria that have been purposefully obscured within mainstream media to suit certain actors agendas, and to enable the false and misleading narrative of “Assad killing peaceful protesters” to become dominant in the discourse surrounding the Syrian conflict."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/qatar-us-proxy-in-americas-terror-war-in-syria/5341204





...

 

Nothing to do with "naïve".

Everything to do with who and what is causing the storm.

And it is not Canada.

Is it?

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Well said.


I did a thread some time ago, bit of an expose on HRW + Amesty Int.

 

No its not Canada. So what? The issue is not who got exposed, the issue is that digital espionage is a huge multi-national, multi corporate enterprise. It does not good to pull up one weed in the garden, you have to get them all.


Is it?

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Well said.


I did a thread some time ago, bit of an expose on HRW + Amesty Int.[/QUOTE]

 

Certainly is, among others. All nations spy Jack as none rely on word alone for their security. And in this particular case, you can't even seem to make up your mind who did this particular spying.

 

.....hardly.

 

Most of the spying now - even by govt officials - is about trade. I would think the NSA would have had no problems feeding trade info to US corporations. And they wouldn't be the only ones.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/29/huawei_still_scary_say_spooks_to_new_oz_government/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...sia-spied-on-G20-leaders-with-USB-sticks.html

and so on.

 

I know its a little off topic ,but it is raised as a question by you .
I think ,1984 ,is the play book by a New generation of middle class ,non-think that is upon us as they take up Government positions .And as middle class dimwits in general .

Another example is the gay and lesbian Movement ,actually thinks that " Modern Family ",the TV series ,is a serious Parenting Guide show for the middle class and "Gay " ,lifestyle chooser's!

Born homosexual ,choose to be Gay as I say!

 

And it isn't just Libya and Syria, either. Amnesty/HRW regularly falsify death casualty counts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan when reporters attempt to tally the numbers killed with U.S. jet strikes and later with drone strikes. You will always notice these groups lowering the numbers by the thousands when civillians are counted, compared with other agencies, (the UN, foreign newspapers and foreign govmnt agencies, etc.) and that is because they are U.S. government connected and controlled funded by the State Dept., NED and Soros, as are untrustworthy sources, the same with Public Radio International (PRI), Doctors Without Borders, and Reporters Without Borders, which are used to manipulate facts for the New World Order regime changes. Whenever you read a news article whose facts are supported by a a United States Govmnt connected NGO (like USAID) react as if you smelled a rat, it always is some war profiteers behind the scenes putting out censored PR spin.