Did Trump's arbitrary decision cause the Saudi oil refinery attack?

Or you could read literally anything on the JCPOA to find out when it expires.

That would be hard though.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2015/07/21/a-comprehensive-timeline-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal/

 

We have been selling a ton of weapons to saudi arabia. If they have been attacked by someone, shouldn't they respond with the weapons we sold them?

It is quite possible that iran had some indirect role in this attack. And, if the nuclear agreement were in place, we could threaten. More sanctions. But we have shot that arrow, for no discernible purpose.

 

The iranians have two years away from having a nuke since 1990. Is this what you mean?

 

Yes because Obama was for it.

 

The president may have been referring to "Termination Day" in October 2025, when provisions of a U.N. resolution endorsing the deal expire, or he may have been referring to the fact that some provisions of the JCPOA itself expire 10 years into the deal, also in 2025.

As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has pledged not to develop nuclear weapons — ever. In agreeing to the JCPOA, Iran recommitted itself to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. The NPT is of indefinite duration and serves as the underpinning for the entire global nonproliferation regime.

Iran also has agreed to abide by the International Atomic Energy Agency's Additional Protocol. It has committed to ratify this agreement in 2023. The IAEA already has the ability to investigate nuclear facilities and activities disclosed by Iran's government. The Additional Protocol supplements those powers by giving IAEA investigators the "ability to investigate undeclared nuclear facilities and activities by increasing the IAEA's authority to inspect certain nuclear-related facilities and demand information from member states," according to a 2017 report by the Congressional Research Service. Simply put, Iran had agreed to give international inspectors wide-ranging authority to peer into its nuclear activities.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-fact-check-trump-iran-deal-20180508-story.html

It was a working agreement signed by the American President. That means something. Other signatories were Britain, France, Germany, Russia, China, and, of course, Iran. It was an effective agreement, and Iran was in full compliance when Trump pulled the plug. Trump had to admit that.

Because it was not a treaty, Trump was allowed to remove the U.S. However, it was a regretful decision. What is happening today is a direct result of Trump's decision.

Trump is trying very hard to restart negotiations to restore what he already had and destroyed.

July 30, 2018: With respect to talks with Iran, asked if he would have pre-conditions for a meeting, Trump said, "No pre-conditions. No. If they want to meet, I'll meet. Anytime they want. Anytime they want. It's good for the country, good for them, good for us, and good for the world. No pre-conditions. If they want to meet, I'll meet."

June 23, 2019: Chuck Todd, host of NBC's "Meet the Press," asked him, "No pre-conditions?" Trump responded, "Not as far as I'm concerned. No pre-conditions."

June 23, 2019: Vice President Mike Pence told CNN's Jake Tapper, "The President of the United States has made it clear we're prepared to talk to Iran without pre-conditions."

September 10, 2019: Appearing together at a press briefing, Mnuchin and Pompeo said within moments of each other that Trump was willing to meet with Iran with "no pre-conditions."

But the Ayatollah refuses to talk to Trump.

"There will be no talks with the U.S. at any level," he said.

Iranian state TV quoted Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as saying this is the position of the entire leadership of the country.

The Iranians do not trust Trump. Can you think of any reason why they should? Trump violated an agreement between the U.S. and his country. There is no requirement that the Supreme Leader understand the American Constitution.

 

Yes, and that progress was halted by the agreement Trump destroyed.

Now the Iranians are following Trump's example. They are in violation of the agreement. They have exceeded the amount of processed uranium. They have exceeded the level of processed uranium.

In other words, thanks to Trump, the Iranians have once again resumed work on their nuclear research.

Plus what all else has happened due to Trump's decision, the seizure of oil tankers, the bombing of oil tankers, the shootdown of an expensive American aircraft, and,more than likely, the destruction of the world's largest oil refinery.

 

Last week, against the advice of his SecState, SecDef, the Pentagon, our intelligence agencies, diplomats with decades of experience, and our closest allies, Trump decided to remove the U.S. from the Iran nuclear deal, or JCPOA. Iran, our allies, Russia, and China are trying to salvage the deal, but the U.S. sanctions make that nearly impossible. Trump intends to punish American businesses and our allies if they do business with Iran.

Iran has threatened to kick out the IAEA inspectors and resume its nuclear program which includes uranium enrichment. The Saudis have threaten to acquire the nuclear bomb if Iran does so. Trump attempted to replace the agreement with harsh language. "I would advise Iran not to start their nuclear program. I would advise them very strongly. If they do there will be very severe consequences."

P. M. Netanyahu of Israel was pleased with Trump's decision. It can be argued he was the cause of it.

I wrote that on May 14, 2018.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/trumps-foreign-policy-decisions.532700/

But Trump was not through kowtowing to the dictator. Next, he threw his own National Security Officer under the bus. Trump dismissed talk of applying the "Libyan model" to the denuclearization of North Korea.

At this point Trump got confused. Bolton commented late last month when he said the "Libya model of 2003, 2004" could be applied to US negotiations with North Korea. Bolton was referring to the dismantling of Libya's weapons of mass destruction program, but Trump appeared to refer to the "Libyan model" as the subsequent military intervention in Libya eight years later that removed Moammar Gadhafi from power.

"The Libyan model isn't a model that we have at all when we're thinking of North Korea," Trump said. "This with Kim Jong Un would be something where he would be there. He would be running his country. His country would be very rich."

That was written on May 17, 2018.

 

TRUMP on Iran: “We gave them $150 billion and $1.8 billion and we got nothing. ... Look at what they did to John Kerry and to President Obama. Look what happened, where they’re bringing planeloads of cash, planeloads, big planes, 757s, Boeing 757s coming in loaded up with cash. What kind of a deal is that?” — news conference with Macron, Aug. 26, 2019.

“Trump got rid of the Iran nuclear deal because it was Barack Obama’s agreement,” said Jarrett Blanc, a former State Department official who helped oversee the 2015 deal’s implementation. “If you were to present to Trump the same deal and call it Trump’s deal, he’d be thrilled.” https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/17/trump-iran-deal-obama-1417801

On the rare occasions when Trump supporters actually defend Trump's disastrous decision to withdraw the U.S. from the JCPOA, they basically ignore the provisions of the agreement, similar to Trump, and talk about state sponsorship of terrorism, missile development, Iran's alliances in the region, and Trump's attempts to curtail the Iranian economy. Other than the threat of sanctions, none of this has anything to do with the agreement.

They also talk about what a bad actor Iran is. Quite true, and this makes Obama's accomplishment of securing the agreement all the more remarkable. But, again, the fact that Iran is a bad actor has nothing to do with the agreement. It is a related factor, and nothing more.

Trump set out to destroy this remarkable achievement because it took place during the Obama administration. The fool virtually admits it. In addition, he could not say Iran was not in compliance with the agreement. His puny excuse was that Iran was breaking the spirit of the agreement, state sponsorship of terror, missile development, alliances, et.al.

That was written on May 20, 2018.

 

No it shouldn't. How hard is this to understand?

1) Not a treaty.
2) Not a treaty ratified by the U.S. Senate.
3) Not a treaty ratified by the U.S. Senate, followed by supporting legislation passed by both Houses of Congress and signed by the president that establishes enforcement provisions under U.S. law for it.

And I notice you didn't say that the Iranians did not agree to allow United States inspectors into its nuclear sites.

I don't trust any treaty that has no provision for draconian inspections by Americans.

 

His Secretary of State Mike Pompeo seems to think it was Dirty Donalds actions that caused the attacks on the butchering Saudi's.

 

There are a lot of agreements that aren't treaties, just like we fight undeclared wars. You'll just have to live with your doubts.

 

What is your point?

 

How much does it pay to be a full time troll nowdays?

 

I have already agreed with you. "Because it was not a treaty, Trump was allowed to remove the U.S. However, it was a regretful decision. What is happening today is a direct result of Trump's decision."

"Trump is trying very hard to restart negotiations to restore what he already had and destroyed."

You are missing the point. The agreement was working. Even Trump had to admit Iran was in compliance. As I have shown several times, Trump's removal of the U.S. from the agreement has caused dire consequences, not the least of which, is the destruction of the world's largest oil refinery.

That is the point.

That was being done by the IAEA inspectors. American inspectors would have been foolish. You are forgetting there were five other nations involved in the JCPOA besides Iran, two of which do not trust the U.S., Russia and China.

You are incredibly naive. In international agreements you don't always get what you want.

 

I have absolutely no idea. You are the one who is friendly to Russia. "Would someone please inform the left that Russia (no longer communist) is no longer our enemy and does not warrant concern."

Is that all you have to say in response to the post? Last refuge of the Trumpet -- attack the writer who dares to talk about Trump. All other defenses are useless.

 

Considering your positing history, you are either being paid to do this, or you are obsessed to pathological degree.

 

Since Trump fired his NSA, John Bolton, SecState Mike Pompeo's influence in foreign policy has been growing by leaps and bounds. Trump's brand new NSA, Robert O'Brien, is just another yes-man, hired because he complimented Trump on several occasions.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday acknowledged that the current crisis with Iran was a "direct result" of actions taken by President Donald Trump.

Since Trump withdrew the US from the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, his administration has engaged in a "maximum-pressure" campaign against Tehran, Iran's capital, in an effort to cripple the Iranian economy with harsh sanctions.

But so far, Trump's hard-line strategy has not been successful, and there's little evidence this is changing.

Pompeo defended this approach to reporters traveling with him to Saudi Arabia, saying, "There is this theme that some suggest that the president's strategy that we allowed isn't working. I would argue just the converse of that. I would argue that what you are seeing here is a direct result of us reversing the enormous failure of the JCPOA."

https://www.businessinsider.com/pompeo-inadvertently-admits-iran-crisis-is-trump-fault-2019-9

No one has ever said that Pompeo was the brightest bulb in the room.

 

That the JCPOA was a failure from the beginning, obviously.

 

Or I am a 76-year old retired Marine Officer with lots of time on my hands. I enjoy writing. I have written two books, and I am a former Op/Ed writer.

And I think Trump is an incompetent, narcissistic, paranoid, mindless President who has made many foolish mistakes and has accomplished little.

 

Explain why it was a failure.

Trumpets seem to have a real problem communicating.

 

Your posts are exclusively limited to attacking Trump and your posts are constant and numerous. It appears to be your full time pursuit. That would lead any reasonable person to conclude you are either receiving compensation for doing this, or you are obsessed to the point of psychopathy. It also brings you patriotism into question as full time prejudicial attacks on the President undermines the entire United States, not just the President personally.
Honest debate of issues is the right and duty of all American Citizens, but the malicious attacks of elected officials with the intended purpose of undermining the results of lawful elections is detrimental to the country as a whole, and is unpatriotic.

 

[QUOTE="Sandy Shanks, post: 1070983313, member: 71623"
You are incredibly naive. In international agreements you don't always get what you want.[/QUOTE]

When Reagan signed (and had ratified) the INF and START nuclear arms treaties with the Soviets, on site inspections were a major part of the deal. Something the Soviets had refused to consider for decades. Not to mention the U.S. routinely paid for Russian inspectors to fly to the U.S. to conduct their inspections.

And note, the inspection regime included unscheduled, unannounced inspections by the other side. The Russians more than once insisted on conducting inspections that interfered with major U.S. exercises. I remember when a bunch of B-52s had to be pulled out of an exercise by the U.S. so the Russians could inspect them.

 

I don't see any evidence that the attack was committed by Iran. Why should we trust the Saudis? Yemenese rebels already claimed responsibility for the attacks in retaliation for Saudi Arabia's support of, and protection of Adbrabbuh Hadi, who the rebels want charged with numerous crimes against the Yemenese people.

 

You want me to explain why a plan that was not ratified by the US government, gave a terror-regime government access to billions of dollars, allowed Iran to dictate what locations could be inspected, allowed Iran to inspect it's own sites in many cases, allowed arms shipments to Iran to resume, removed ballistic missile sanctions, ended cargo inspections, and all limits on the deal ended in 25 years.

This is a manual on how to fund a nuclear weapon program in 25 years.

But sure, let's trust the people chanting "death to America". They're just misunderstood.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2015/07/21/a-comprehensive-timeline-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal/

https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-iran-nuclear-20170830-story.html

https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/detail/revisiting-parchin

 

Trump forced Iran into a corner and Iran has struck back.

Signed during the Obama administration, the Iran nuclear deal (JCPOA) permanently barred Iran from making a nuclear bomb. In May 2018, Trump removed the U.S. from the JCPOA and reimposed the harsh sanctions that stuck a dagger into the heart of the Iranian economy. Iran’s economy came under unprecedented pressure thanks to the reimposed sanctions, especially oil sanctions, with negative 1.5 percent growth in 2018 and an expected negative 3.6 percent growth in 2019.

Iran has bombed and seized oil tankers. While technically a member of the JCPOA, she has resumed her nuclear research in earnest. She has exceeded the amount of processed uranium. She has exceeded the level of uranium enrichment. She has shot down a very expensive American aircraft that was spying on Iranian military bases.

All of this came as a result of Trump's regretful decision in May 2018.

And now this, the destruction of the world's largest oil refinery.

Politico reports, "Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif threatened that an “all-out war” would result from a military strike on Iran by the United States or Saudi Arabia in response to last weekend’s attacks on Saudi oil facilities.

“I make a very serious statement about defending our country. I’m making a very serious statement that we don’t want war,” Zarif said on Thursday.

"We don’t want to engage in a military confrontation,” he continued. “We believe that a military confrontation based on deception is awful, will have a lot of casualties. But we won’t blink to defend our territory."

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said there was "enormous consensus" that Iran was responsible for the middle-of-the-night missile and drone attacks last weekend that at least temporarily knocked out half of the Saudis' oil production, nearly 6% of the global oil supply.

"We are still striving to build out a coalition in an act of diplomacy while the foreign minister of Iran is threatening all-out war and to fight to the last American, we're here to build up a coalition aimed at achieving peace," Pompeo said.

"We'd like a peaceful resolution," he said. "I hope the Islamic Republic of Iran sees it the same way."

Just days after declaring the United States was “locked and loaded” in response to a suspected Iranian attack on key Saudi Arabian oil facilities, U.S. President Donald Trump on Wednesday said that he directed the Treasury Department to “substantially increase” sanctions on Iran.

Foreign Policy writes, "That raises several questions: What is left to sanction? How much more could it hurt Iran than losing almost all of its oil exports?"

Good Lord, what a mess. Thank you, Mr. President.