As we take turns chasing the same tails around the same old bushes with the gun control crowd, there are several things that niggle at me, wanting to be said, but not finding words. One of those points is Discipline. When I was a kid, I was among boy scouts and army guys, because that was my daddys' world, and he wanted me in it. I learned to read, and swim and drive and shoot at age 4, but even before then, I was in the midst of Discipline. We do things in such and such a way, because this is how things are made to work. We do exactly this thing at exactly this point, because there are people all around us who need to have things in just this order so they can pick up with their Discipline when they get here. The "gun culture" is a perfect means for instilling this methodology in the minds of people of all ages. Discipline is a huge aspect of what is missing in our young people these days. The liberal arguments assume that gun owners are as undisciplined as mainstream America, and they try to use that as an argument. They say that college kids are too stupid to have guns on campus. Well, if they were raised without discipline, that would be true. If they were raised as responsible gun owners, it would NOT. There are other ways to instill discipline. Martial arts. Spiritual study. Technical hobbies, like RC aircraft. But early gun training is hard to beat. What do you think? How do we instill discipline in people?
But Joe, that would create things that liberals just don't like. Discipline, order, self control, self reliance are all anathema to the liberal mind Unless the government allows you to have it in a government approved school. You wouldn't want to crush their little world would you?
I agree with you on most of the above. Both of my sons are Eagle Scouts. IMHO, Scouting is about the best way to instill internal discipline, versus external. That said, I don't see RC aircraft as bringing any discipline. I had an ex brother-in-law who was into RC aircraft. Basically speaking, he flew them one afternoon a month, and fixed them for the other 29-30 days a month. No discipline, just puttering around.
My point in that is Discipline. If you don't put every tiny little thing together in exactly the right way, it can't possibly work. Understanding that goes a very long way toward functionality in everything else.
Discipline and self respect is sorely missing in the youth of today. It all comes down to parenting. Parents that involve their children in organized sports are helping instill discipline. Parents and instructors that teach firearm safety are teaching ultimate discipline. You can tell the difference in adults that were raised with discipline and those that weren't. People who lack discipline often have trouble keeping employment, often become obese or have health problems from diet, they also often have substance abuse issues as well. They don't have the ability to know when enough is enough.
I don't buy that organized sports do much to instill discipline. I've seen way too many players mouth off at coaches. Probably a good thing I'm not a coach, I'd kick them off the team for mouthing off more than once. (First time would be the warning). That said, I've seen personally that high school band demands a lot of discipline. I've seen exactly one band member mouth off to a band director. She was immediately kicked out of band at that instant. Mother told to take her out of the stadium. - - - Updated - - - I don't see it based on my experiences.
So what do you see? It takes more discipline to mess with RC aircraft than it does to roll joints and drink beer. Why are we getting stuck on this, anyway? Maybe you had issues with this brother in-law. I would agree that participation in a HS band would do a great amount of good. Playing an instrument in a band requires the deliberate application of many skills, along with marching, social interaction, and team work. That's all good, but professional musicians typically don't make a good living, and there ain't much demand for them. You said that school is all about academics and vocation. Social adjustment is right up there, and 42% of the population is a huge part of society. Being socially adjusted to have a healthy regard for firearms is right up there.
Discipline usually boils down to the parents and how they decide to raise their children. In todays day and age it seems that parenting has gone by the wayside in many cases and plenty of children grow up without much discipline at all. Teaching children about firearms is taboo to many parents. So is pretty much letting kids do anything at all. Maybe its just a sign of the changing times I don't know but things were different when I grew up as Im sure they were when most of you grew up as well. I've noticed that nowadays very few children call adults "Mr" or "Ms", they simply call them by their first names. When I was growing up that was disrespectful, your other child friends get called by their first name, adults get called "Mr or Ms so and so" and "Sir and Ma'am". Failing to do that would get corrected very quickly. That was such a big deal when I was growing up that I STILL call our own family friends "Mr and Ms so and so" decades after I myself reached adulthood. Calling them by their first name just sounds weird to me. My father used to make me cut the grass, clean the house, do the dishes, do every damn thing it seemed. One day I got sick of it and asked "Not to be rude but why do I do all of this stuff, what exactly do you do!?" His response as he sat back in his chair, "I pay the bills". Yeah but why do I have to cut the grass and all that stuff? Why don't you hire some kids to do it or something? "Because you live here". I was pissed. What does he mean because I live here? Of course I live here I'm 16 freaking years old where the hell else would I live?... Outside of birthdays and christmas if I wanted something by father made me work for it. I'll never forget the day when I asked him to buy me a cheap car when I was in high school because most of my friends had cars and I was sick of taking the bus with the younger kids or riding my bike around. His response was simple "Get a job and buy yourself a car". I was furious, he could afford to give me $1500 or so to buy a cheap car, half the kids at school had nice cars, I didn't even want a nice car I just wanted a car period even if it was ugly. I didn't want a job, I had school to do, I didn't want to go to work AFTER school that would suck I want my time off. His response? "Thats fine then, don't work after school, just keep taking the bus to school, doesn't bother me none I have a car". Then I asked why doesn't he just take me to school then so I don't have to ride the bus like a loser. His response "Because I don't want to wake up that early, you're a big boy you don't need your father to escort you to school". Lazy ass son of a....! Making me take the bus to school like a stupid kid, have to rely on friends to take me places, have to eat school lunch because I have no money to eat off campus, this is stupid why can't he just buy me a damn car, he can afford it, everyone elses parents bought them cars... So after kicking and screaming and calling him every name in the book in my head guess what I did? I got a job. Worked every single day after school for months and saved up every dime. Months later my father and I head to the used car lot and I start looking at cheap cars for about $1500. I was staring at a small little cheap car and the car dealer walks up behind me and says "Why are you looking at that one young man? That one is old and will probably need some work surely you can afford something a little better than that? How about this one over here?" I tell him "Well I only have $1500 sir, this is the only one I've seen for that price". He responds "Well that gentleman over there says he thinks you'd like that car better, lets go check that one out and we'll see if we can work something out". It was a much nicer car that was a little over double the amount of money I had. I told the dealer again "Its nice sir but I can't afford it..." then my father simply says "Sure you can" and smacks me on the back. My father bought the car and sold it to me for $1500. It was never about the money, it just took me up until that day to realize that. That was simply one of many little lessons that I firmly believe paved the way for the success I have in life today. My father went from being every name in the book when I was younger to being the most respected man I know as an adult. Raise your children, discipline your children, don't be afraid to hurt your childs feelings, and they have a very good shot at not being completely screwed up when they reach adulthood.
It's sad that this kind of parenting today is rare. Kids today live in a world of expected instant gratification. Your dad did good.
It is sad that parenting in general seems to be rare nowadays. Now I am by no means saying my generation or generations before me were all perfect little angels with perfect manners who never got in trouble. I saw plenty of kids running amok as a child and I myself was "a kid" on plenty of occasions. But things are very different now I will say. My father also bought me a BB gun when I was young to teach me responsibility and teach me about firearms. He was EXTREMELY strict when it came to me using that thing and that was one of the few times where he actually had to sit down with me and look me in the eyes and give me a very stern talking to. The kind where you know your parent isn't joking around...His rules were very clear. 1. NEVER EVER point this BB gun at ANYBODY, EVER. 2. NEVER look down the barrel (I was a kid we do things like that) 3. NEVER let your friends try it out or hold it or even touch it 4. NEVER leave the confines of the backyard with it for ANY reason WHATSOEVER. 5. ALWAYS shake the BB's out when you are done, every single last one of them, and fire it to make sure nothing is left in there. 6. And finally, NEVER shoot ANYTHING that you don't intend to eat. His little talking to that he gave me made me terrified of that BB gun, and that was GOOD. I was afraid of it so I respected it, I was afraid of hurting myself or someone else. I was overly cautious every single time I handled that thing, checking and double checking my surroundings, making sure all of the BBs were out when I was done, always aware of where it was pointed, etc. And by the way, there is no such thing as being overly cautious when handling firearms. Some parents would literally throw a tasmanian devil style fit if they knew a 10 year old had a BB gun. But with proper training and supervision and education it is perfectly fine. Plenty of friends of mine take their children out with us to the shooting range. My good friend's 11 year old has a .22 rifle who is a damn deadshot with that thing. Like I said all it takes is discipline and actually RAISING your children. Teach them to respect things that they have, earn what they have, educate them, and teach them some damn manners. Proper upbringing is the key to success in life, nothing else is as important as that. I don't know why so many parents nowadays just fail to realize that.
