Electoral College Tie - what if?

It is conceivable that we may have an Electoral College tie this election. If that happens that means the Presidential election moves to the house where of course Romney will be elected. However the VP election goes to the Senate where there could also be a 50-50 tie and then guess who would cast the tie breaking vote. Biden.

Thus the questions posed. If it comes to that should Biden do the right thing and vote for Ryan, thus ensuring we have a VP who is a full active partner of the President taking on special roles on the Presidents behalf as Biden has done for Obama and should the worst happen ensure we have smooth transition of government with a VP ready to step in should that happen? Or should Biden say screw the country and what is best, I like being VP and would love to make it more difficult for Romney? Meaning a VP who has no function or duty other than break ties in the Senate.

I ask you decide.

 

Of course Biden would say "screw the country!" That's what he's been helping to do along with his boss for the last 4 years and long before that as well...........JH in Va.

 

According to the Constitution, as you pointed out the Vice President would be the deciding vote. This is of course what the writers of the Constitution intended, and the situation that you pointed out would have been fully anticapatable by our wise original leaders

Therefore I would support the Constitution and support the vote of the Vice President, in exactly how I would support the vote of the House.

Why would you not support the Constitution and the intent of the writers of the Constitution?

 

Depends what you mean by screw the country though wouldn't Biden have a better chance of getting the senate anyway not by much but a better chance than Ryan considering there are more democrats in it? Though again you can't really say it will be "screw the country" it would be his decision so he would decide what he thinks is best. If he chooses to step down democrats would dislike him and call him a coward if he doesn't then Republicans would be pissed and say it's a sham or democrats trying to destroy America.

I however would if I was Biden step down as it wouldn't be smart staying because you could easily be made a scapegoat when things go wrong, I could imagine people saying "Romney would have fixed everything if Biden stepped down" though he may think that staying would help regulate Romney's policies to serve what interests he sees are better.

This is completely hypothetical but that's my opinion.

 

I say if the house selects Obama instead of Romney, then Biden should cast his ballot for Ryan. Bipartisanship at its finest.

 

lol if the house choose Obama I would definitely be surprised and I think it would be one of the biggest surprises in a long time.

 

The VP would be selected by the President and confirmed by the Senate under your hypothetical. I highly doubt that Romney would put Biden up for VP selection. If the Senate did ignore Romney's choice and elect their own guy then the power to fire any executive branch employee still rests with the President so he would fire Biden and replace him.

There is no way for Biden to maintain the VP, according to the 12th amendment, if the President doesn't want him.

I'm not even sure if the Senate gets to vote on the VP if the House decides on a President. I think that only applies if the House can't reach a decision.

 

Well that prompted me to re-read the 12th Amendment. According to the 12th Amendment- if the election is a tie- it does go to the House- but- each state only gets one vote. This would probably work in Romney's favor- as South Dakota would have as many votes as California.

Interesting- but anyway- according to the 12th Amendment yes the Senate would choose the VP. But the President can't fire the VP, he would have to be impeached.

 

I believe the President can remove the VP at any time if he is not put into office by the Senate. If the Senate wishes to remove him against the President's will they can impeach. Not sure how this would play out since the Constitution isn't really that clear about this exact situation.

For instance, the Constitution doesn't specify if the VP is a member of the Executive Branch or the Legislative Branch since his duties encompass areas in both. If the VP is at the level of a Cabinet Minister than the President can ask for his resignation (which is almost always granted) but if hes part of the Legislative then that would lock the President out.

It'd be interesting if someone finds out the exact answer under this scenario.

 

Would the choice be made by the newly elected house, or the sitting house at the time of the election?

 

If the new House has taken their oaths then it would be them. If not then it would be the old House regardless of when they were elected. Its all about being sworn in, that is the official transfer of power.

 

Where did you get the idea I would not support the Constitutionality of his decision? That is not the question.

The question is would he do what would be best for the country?

 

Yes best for him or best for the country.

The honorable ones would call him a statesman for doing what was best for the country.

Why on earth would they say such a thing, he would be told by the President to stay over in the Senate or the UNSO, don't bother showing up at the White House. He'd be shuffled aside into a do nothing position.

Why would that be better for the country?

How??? He would be powerless to do anything. He'd be a rug on the floor except when there was a tie vote in the Senate if he bothered to show up.

 

So do you have a serious response to what there is a possibility of happening? A political first.

 

It says no such thing.
12th Amendment

"The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."

If it comes down to a tie in the Senate then Biden would break the tie.

 

Where on earth did you get that belief?

If the CONGRESS wants to remove the Vice-President the President has not input or authority in the matter.

It is quite clear.

His only duty is in the legislative branch, he has no duty or authority in the Executive branch.

Geez, where did you go to school and study Civics, that President has NO authority to ask for his resignation.

He doesn't grant it, he accepts on behalf of the US Government.

 

this hypocricy is disgusting; instead of this hypothetical scenario, republicans actually said "screw the country", they made all to ensure the democrats cant take credit for anything, voting against bills they believed in or even proposed; and even if this is more or less common in (american) politics, the degree of the unwillingness to work with the other party is on an all time high regarding republicans, and also obviously hurting the country

 

Biden would be an utter fool not to pick himself. If he didn't feel he could handle the job of President, he shouldn't have become Vice-President. Instead of talking policies or mannerisms, talk about what kind of a man would vote for another man to take the job he would otherwise get.

 

Yea but my point is that Biden wouldn't be nominated to be VP so the Senate can't vote for him. If they House chooses Romney then Romney will get to submit his nominatin for VP to the Senate for confirmation. He isn't going to select Biden. If they reject Ryan then Romney would just select another republican.

The Senate does not have Constitutional power to nominate people for the Executive Branch.

 

If you want to discuss some other scenario about something else then start a thread about it.

This one is about what might actually happen.

 

A man who realizes it is not about him but about what would be best for the country and that being a Vice-President who support the President and acts as an important part of his cabinet ready to take over in the hopefully never to occur event that he would.

 

The person elected as President does NOT submit a nomination, read the 12th Amendment as I posted. You are confused with the original text of the Constitution, the 12th amendment not supersedes that. And the Senate doesn't "nominate" they choose between the two persons who received the most electoral votes.

"
"The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.""

 

Here is how it works if the Electoral College is a tie:
The Presidency is determined by the House. With each State getting one vote. The votes come from the "NEW HOUSE MEMBERS" who are sworn in Jan 3 and the election of the President takes place on Jan 6. Whichever Presidential candidate gets 26 votes is the winner and becomes President. Now here is where it is interesting, some States have equal number of Democrats and Republican and they must decided between them who gets the vote. Probably would go by the popular vote in that State. Now, the House can "elect" anyone they desire. Now to the Senate, each State gets 1 vote and whoever gets 26 votes is the VP. The vote is only for the top 2 candidates (in this case Biden and Ryan). If there is a tie in the Senate the current VP (Biden) is the tie breaking vote. There are many more what if's than I would like to type here. This is the link to describe the procedure

http://electoralcollegetie.com/How_Do_We_Break_A_Tie_.php

 

interesting, but about as likely as Ron Paul being elected president.

 

Yea I think I'm a bit confused as to the OP's orginal question.