End the Scourge of White Supremacy

Please explain how, and why, white supremacy did not end well for Zimbabwe.

I mean, wasn't the overthrow of white supremacy in Zimbabwe a good and happy ending? In what way did it end poorly?

Look what I got when I was in Zimbabwe.



Wooohoo! I'm rich!

You see what happens when you kick out whitey? Everybody becomes billionaires!

 

Creasy has won the argument. Bravo.

 

That's interesting, because I read that in the Ottoman Empire, any babies born of black slaves were killed - which accounts for why there are no mulattoes.

I really don't see that much difference in the photos, but then again I'm a Greek who looks German, and who had a younger brother that looked like a male version of Nefertiti. What I do know is that Alexander the Great who was madly in love with Roxanne, told his men to marry Persian women - something that surprised them, since the Greeks were elitists.

In Greek the term for race is the same as ethnicity, so that different tribes would be interpreted as race by historians. Anyway the ancient world is very mixed. Even before Alexander there had to have been a constant mixture of Greeks and Persians in Anatolia and the islands regardless of the Greek 'elitism', otherwise why would they side with Persia in the Greek wars?

 

Whether that account regarding the Ottoman empire (Iran's main rivals during their time) has any validity or not, it has nothing to do with Iran. Nothing like that has happened in Iran.

Something like that is very typical in Iranian families, including between siblings. Although the purely "Nordic" look is almost as rare as someone having a purely "Afro" background, the differences between the presidents from Iran would cover only a part of the diversity of Iran.

There is a lot to say on the issues you raise. I will come back to this later.

 

RSA, Republic of South Africa.

 

You have lost the argument. An Iranian has no moral authority regarding race relations in the United States.

 

And Rhodesia the richest country in Africa became Zambabwe, the poorest country. It's happening in S. African now because we're idiots. We pressured those nations for our own political expediency - or to satisfy and pacify the liberals, rather than taking the welfare of all the people living there into account. That includes the whites as well as the majority of the blacks, who don't want to see their children starving to death.

Anyway, maybe we should stop categorizing humanity by skin color and eliminate the term 'race', since it's belittling and gives some the impression of being victimized. It should be substituted with societal terms such as social class - because that's really what it is.

There's also the comfort factor. Everyone wants to be with people who have the same standards as themselves - and no one should be forced to compete in a society with different standards.

Of course this doesn't fit in with the ideals of our liberal 'gods', who feel they know what's best for humanity - and that means everyone should think, do and act the way they want you to think, do and act.

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LIBERAL GODS
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Take that you fools of misery.

For we the gods of lofty see,
are watching you from our great height
and snicker at the motley sight
of lesser beings, not as bright
as us - Jeannette


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I don't find the 'argument' you are referring to as anything but a deflection. Otherwise, who in the real world (among even those whose main profession is to promote propaganda against Iran) has raised an issue about Afro-Iranians being excluded from political 'governance' in Iran? No such issue exists since we are talking about a very small community, concentrated in a few places in southern Iran.

As for my 'moral authority': I am responsible only for those things that I believe in, promote, encourage, act upon or endorse. Not what anyone else is doing in Iran or elsewhere, unless I have endorsed the conduct at issue. Unlike you, I haven't been trying to endorse, encourage or promote racial divisions.

 

I'll accept this is true, and the reason why is because the Arab slave trade was more of a gigantic sexual slavery ring than it was a chattel slavery enterprise.

The Arab slave trade was all about harems, and concubines and African women taken as sex slaves. African men were taken as forced-labor slaves to work salt mines and whatnot, but they were kept away from the female slaves, and not allowed to have sex with them. The whole point being that the Arabs were having forced sex with the female slaves, and they didn't want them "ruined" by African male slaves.

What few male African slaves that were permitted to be in close proximity to female African slaves were castrated, for obvious and horrific reasons.

So that's why there isn't a significant negro presence in modern-day Iran. For hundreds of years, the African females were bred(by force) with Arab males, and they were NOT allowed to birth full-bred negros(as they were in America), and thus, the negro was bred out of the offspring over time.

And that's why Iranians are in a morally-superior position to criticize racist Americans today.

 

That's interesting, do you have a source for that? Not disputing, just interested.

If you're going by the famous bust you might want to get yourself and your brother gene tested. That bust is widely rumored to be a fake, modeled on a somewhat exotic looking German girl, though I've never seen proof of that. (OTOH I've never seen that idea conclusively proven, it is very disputed, and that article was 11 years old, whatever, she was certainly a beauty, real or not)

I am reminded of what Egypt's main Egyptologist said when he was asked what the Ancient Egyptians looked like. "Come and see," he said in that inimitable accent , "we are still here"

 

1- Iran is not an Arab country and instead of conflating practices in other places with those in Iran, if you want to talk about Iran, lets focus on Iran.

2- While there was slavery in Iran in the post Islamic era, and the institution was present under the Safavid empire in the 16th century and their successors (until it was abolished in practice in the 19th century and by law in the early 20th century), the African slaves weren't a major component of that slave trade (except for some brief periods and even then, in a very localized manner in certain parts of Iran). Hence, while there were "slaves" from other regions used as concubines in harems of Iranian monarchs, very few of them were African. The few African slaves used (outside southern Iran were their use was in slightly larger numbers and for slightly different reasons) were mainly as household servants. And, in the royal court, sometimes as eunuchs. But, overall, the number of people who could afford household servants, never mind eunuchs, weren't that significant to begin with.

 

I've never met anyone who has advocated for "white Supremacy" but there are some on here who keep bringing it up. Race -baiting can work both ways.

 

I know it is true racism will always exist, but that is no reason to try and reduce its negative outcomes. Anyone who studies statistics at a significant level knows this is all about racism, those who study history in-depth, know the the Civil War was principally about slavery, and those who have common-sense know that is past time to reduce the power of white supremacy within the US. Any claim to the contrary is blindly hand waving.

 

Actually it's very common to have extremes in color and looks on my mother's island - and in the same family no less. It's like a mulatto thing, one child turns out dark, the other light and the others are in-between. The German looking Greek's I know, fared well with the Germans during the war, the other's starved. Oddly enough, the Greeks never realized the racial implications.

I read recently that it was a flattering death mask of Nefertiti. She didn't really look like that.

That's what they want to believe. I don't know if it's a Turkish, Arab or Sunni thing, but they have the illusion that when they conquer a place and have a few children with their slaves, that they have the right to take the name, heritage and achievements of the original inhabitants.

The real Egyptians do exist though, and they are the Christians Copts - and they are dark. The reason they're called Copts, is because they cut themselves off from the Orthodox Churches when they refused to accept one of the Ecumenical Councils. They speak the original Egyptian language, and they go through hell because unlike the other Christians, they have no country to go to. Egypt is their country.

 

I don't know about Iran, but the harems in Turkey consisted mostly of Circassian women who were well known for their beauty. Other than them, there were the good looking Russians and even a cousin of Napoleon's Josephine who was kidnapped by pirates on her way back to France from Martinique, and sold to the Sultan.

It's an interesting story. Josephine had dragged her cousin to a witch on Martinique and it seems they both asked to be the head of empires. The French girl became the Sultan's favorite, and later she became the 'Sultana', the mother of the Sultan.

My grandfather said that a grand aunt of his was taken into slavery during the massacre of the island of Chios, and she returned - which they were allowed to do when they reached 40. It's amazing how many Turks look like relatives of mine.

 

When they say "End the scourge of white-supremacy" they are not referring to supremacists, they are referring to any power whites may have in government or private sector globally. Ending white-supremacy to radicals mean the complete takeover of everything white, then using that power to further attack them...until they decide to stop... which will likely be when their hatred end... history taught us that will be never, as no-one hates quite like a radical.

We need to hold the centre... not give in to their divisive politics

 

The problem here is the black mentality, and how easily they can be manipulated by black demagogues. Zambabwe comes to mind. They were starving you know, and yet as Rhodesia it was the richest place in Africa. Today they are massacring the white farmers in S. Africa, so tell me, who is going to take their place?

I'll give you another example. I personally consider Alan Keyes one of the most brilliant men in the country, and unlike Obama, he's a real black. Yet because he's a Christian and highly moral and not a demagogue, he's not a black to the blacks. You figure!

 

How about black farmers? Nobody should be massacred by anyone, no question, but is there any reason white farmers who aren't there anymore for whatever reason can't be replaced by blacks?

He's not that much of a black to most blacks because he's something of a committed conservative, and most blacks consider conservatives the very definition of Uncle Toms. This is more because conservatives historically have very little sympathy for the poor than any distaste blacks have for chiliasm, however, and I hear that the only blacks who do like Keyes do so because their religion overcomes their economics. Is that so?

 

Forced integration...hmmmm...can you expound on that? No need for

Black mentality is no less manipulatable than whiteness group-think by demagogues. Also, the claim about white South-African farmer has been shown to be false:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/white-farmers-south-africa/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks

My contacts in SA say it is made up as well.

 

Reality:

A few years after the British gave up their lands in Rhodesia, the wealthiest nation in Africa turned into Zambabwe, the poorest land in Africa. The people were starving.

So why weren't the blacks able to take over the farms? Because they didn't want to. What they wanted was the satisfaction of kicking out the British, and taken what they had.

It's this mentality, that turns wealthy nations like Rhodesia's into Zimbabwe's. It's also why blacks are so easily manipulated by demagogues.

The blacks didn't like Alan Keyes because he's not telling them what they want to hear. If he did, it would mean he's like the others and lacks integrity, and that he wants to manipulate them for his own self serving interests. Keyes may be a phenomenal orator, but he's not a demagogue.

 

This is from Newsweek March 2018, but there is a lot, lot more.

Activists say South African authorities are tacitly approving attacks on the country's white farmers, with one being murdered every five days, and the police turning a blind eye to the violence.

The white nationalist lobbying group AfriForum says that when lawmakers passed a motion last month which could see land being seized from farmers without compensation, it sent a message that landowners could be attacked with impunity.

It said there have been 109 recorded attacks so far in 2018 and 15 farm murders, meaning that this year, one white farmer has been killed every five days.​

https://www.newsweek.com/white-farm...ys-south-africa-authorities-do-nothing-851470

 

No it's not, it's about ending disadvantage associated with poverty.

Wrong. Poverty is correlated to race, still.

Nonsense: except that some traditions eg un-earned privilege, need to be jettisoned, ASAP.

Get rid of the terrible stats: eg black poverty and unemployment rates double that of whites, then the animosity toward whites will disappear.

Depends on the steps taken to eliminate black disadvantage, manifested in high unemployment, poverty, crime and incarceration rates, which are the cause of the present global protests.

Yes you are missing the most basic factor, namely, the majority acceptance of an economic system that tolerates poverty, because this majority believe there is no alternative (TINA)

...but the majority is wrong, in this case.

 

If poverty creates crime and inequality why does the left import millions of poor third world souls that will come to America and live in poverty????? The answer is obvious.... Go back to the shadow.

 

It was pretty much the same in Iran. The African slave trade in Iran was mostly focused in the south, mainly to supply markets outside of Iran. In Iran itself, the Safavids and their successors, including the Qajars, basically filled their harems with Circassian and Georgian girls. The practice ended after Iran lost a couple of wars to the Russians in the 19th century and lost its control over the Caucasus region. Until then, eastern Armenia (to include Yerevan) and much of Georgia (to include Tiblisi), along with what is now the Azerbaijan Republic (whose population is predominately Shia Muslims) were part of Iran or under Iranian suzerainty. The western regions of Armenia and Georgia were part of the Ottoman empire, reflecting boundaries drawn up over many centuries of warfare with Iran. In fact, territories that had been the bone of contention between not just Iran and the Ottoman empire, but Iran and Rome/Byzantine empire as well. Until the Russians came along from the late 18th century and then the 19th century, this region was mostly divided between Iran and the Ottomans, even if they would sometimes have local rulers and allowed limited autonomy.

I am, incidentally, on one of my grandmother's sides, a descendant of one of those "slaves"! My grandmother was born in Fereydan, near Isfahan, in a town which is composed mainly of people who are descendants of Georgians brought to Iran as slaves. Who then became Iranian and Muslim. In fact, it wasn't until a few years ago, when I was planning to visit Fereydan to visit the place my grandmother was born and where her family still lives, that I was even aware that the inhabitants of the place are traced to these Georgians. No one else in Iran is much aware of it either! It is the kind of thing you can read in Wikipedia, or some history books, but it isn't all that relevant otherwise. Which is to say this: while slavery of any kind and under any justification is obnoxious, there is a difference if the slavery is justified based on race. Blacks in the US in the south couldn't avoid or be freed of slavery saying they want to be 'White". The Georgians in my grandmothers village, on the other hand, became Iranians like everyone else in the ethnic mosaic that is Iran.

 

Please provide credible evidence of "violent conflict between ethnic and racial groups" since the end of the RACIST Apartheid era that is ENTIRELY 100% race-based and has nothing whatsoever to do with crime and/or poverty.