Europe is abandoning Trump on the world stage as it turns away from the US toward China

Precisely. It's technology and technology not only makes our lives better it is inevitable and unavoidable. Globalism is far more dependent upon containerized shipping than anything else, especially politics

People who don't approve of globalism think all of us can afford to pay $2500 for an "American made" overcoat. (Actually, most conservatives don't really think that, they just don't care. In fact, many of them want to see a world where we "peasants" can't afford anything beyond the very basics of life and have nothing more than rough and miserable existences. It gives the lower orders the wrong idea if we can live lives comparable to our betters. )

 

I agree in one thing, once Trumper type conservatives lose their present position in November they won't get it back, not ever. You've ****ed up so bad this time that conservatism will have to be thoroughly redefined before it will recover any position of real political influence in this country

Most people of good sense want the areas with the most people to have the most say even if they don't live there. It's silly to give empty forests and hills more influence than people

You won't be "ruled' by anyone. Americans aren't ruled, we are governed, and that's by the majority of ourselves, not a small but vociferous cult of authoritarian bigots.

 

How many millions of votes will the Democrat have to win by before you accept the win as legitimate? 5 million votes? 10 million votes? Obama won by 7 million votes, and took the Electoral College - were those all illegals?

 

Unless you can find a way to pay American Factory Workers $2.00 an hour, then Capitalism says that the majority of the jobs stay overseas. Hi Tech has been the driver of the American economy for the last 20 years.

 

Nothing is more dangerous than a powerful government. They get their power using the boil the frog method. You need to live in Los Angeles and see what your side really wants.

 

What you see around you, and particularly what you notice, is mainly a product of what you are looking for; far more than people think. The reason we read experts, and especially the Classics, is to guide our observations.

All governments are powerful, indeed, they ARE power, or how it is exercised. A "small" government is just one that is not exercising it, but that can change. Democracy or democratically based republic, governments like ours require and demand participation, not setpieces and slogans.

It behooves us to be neither frogs nor in pots, (and to never overuse metaphors)

 

Doing one thing right doesn't absolve all the other wrong stuff.

And open boarders is not a thing that's ever going to happen in the US. It didn't happen when Obama had a super majority and it's definitely never going to happen with no super majorities happening anytime soon

 

I am not a fan of long posts, so boiling the frog is a fair description of slowly stealing our liberty and our money in small increments. That 1/4% sales tax to help the homeless sounds harmless, but now our sales tax is almost 10% and the problem is only getting worse. They got their nibble of power!

For all those who want to expand government power or care what Europe thinks about us:

 

It was outsourced 30 yrs ago. Republicans led the way to outsourcing our mfg.
We won't get it back, much of it anyway. It will just move to the next lowest wage country. Viet Nam, Indonesia, etc were getting many jobs that were leaving China.

It's not my dream, it was the dream of our corporations, put into place by Republicans, 30 yrs ago.

 

I knew also. It's why I voted Perot. But Clinton won. And he joined the Republican party in selling out middle America.

The only way we can be equal to other nations on wage basis, is to lower our wage base. Which also has been going on for 30 yrs.
It was in the beginning stages of climbing up, and then tRUMP went to economic war with China and crushed hopes of rising wages. And did so with the blessing of the Republican party. Once again, Republicans crap on working America.

 

In the USA, the people elect the gov't they want. If the gov't is dangerous, the people want it that way.

Did you see the latest the Senate voted about? Letting the gov't search people's webbrowers without a warrant.
Not only do they love the Patriot Act, they want to expand the Patriot Act. How about them Senators? More gov't interference. And many that support tRUMP are all giddy about giving more power.

 

Good point, Not only did they abuse their power under the guise of safety, their overreach failed to stop acts of terrorism. Both sides cheer for their own brand of overreach and then complain when its used against them.

 

We were leaders because we made the best things and sold them for less. Efficiency in particular was a major characteristic of American products.

Now the conservatives all act as if being wasteful is a core American value and everybody should buy our things even if they are crappy because Americans are just such superior people. I'm not saying that American things are not still quality but it used to be that our manufacturers would be ashamed of coercing other Americans to use their products through taxing foreign commodities rather than out-competing them in a fair marketplace.

 

Even if the manufacturing does come back it won't be Americans in the factories but robots. We have lost far more jobs to automation than to foreigners.

It's not called a post-industrial economy for nothing. Manufacturing is the **** work of the future which we should outsource to foreign nations while we design computers and provide services to robot factories. (What really distresses me is calling a Help line and talking to Abu from Lahore, but I guess it's better than Siri or Alexa)

At one point or another we are going to have to realize that we no longer need to work constantly to have a productive economy. People once thought the Republic would fall if we were ever lazy enough to really only work a mere 40 hours per week, now we demand to have that much even when the employer is willing to pay us the same for less. Madness.

 

Doesn't matter. The Electoral college does. It's America.

 

So, like Obama, you say welcome to the new normal? Not buying it. Americans should not have to compete with slave labor. History shows we will not tolerate it. Ever hear of the American Civil War? We will have to do it this time through exorbitant tariffs....but it is the right thing to do.

 

No....conservatives are innovative. Politicians are not.

 

I like to call em hypocrites.

 

Yes, mfg jobs that come back will need to be able to compete with low wage countries. So, machine controlled assy lines with robots and the like will be running them. With an operator and maintenance to keep them humming along.

Meat packing plants have to hire immigrants because Americans won't do that work.

 

Conservative by definition, almost, are not innovative.

Conservative hates change

 

Conserve, to save things the way they are.

It's in the very name. If the big central belief of your life is "the old ways are best" you're usually not a big fan of always trying to improve things.

 

Conservatives understand there are things that do not need to change. Certain principles are valuable for innovation.

 

Before Trump a good synonym for conservative was often 'traditionalist'.

 

Proof of Donald Trumps Conservatism are the Judges he appoints. They are not "activist judges". Liberal judges try to legislate from the bench.Traditional/ Conservative Judges interpret law according to the Constitution.

 

Conservatives say that about any judge that disagrees with them. Liberals do too, but not nearly as often as conservatives. The Constitution is actually a pretty radical document if you examine it carefully and this is not surprising as the men who wrote it had just been the leaders of a violent revolution against one of the most liberal of the monarchies then existing