Evidence for the Holocaust?

The problem is you are the one sitting in judgement of that. You ask for good evidence, but present no argument as why specific pieces of evidence fail to meet your requirements. Simply waving your hand in idle amusement just highlights your real agenda

 

we have given you links to read.

you refuse to read them.

do you want us to hold your hand and spoonfeed you everything?

you're an adult. You can do some of your own reading.

 

If your best evidence is a link to Wikipedia with no discussion I think your contribution is done.
Thanks.

 

here are the books written by the people who we rely on for Holocaust numbers.

be an adult and read them.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...8305240&uid=62&uid=3739256&sid=21102558436737

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Destruction_of_the_European_Jews

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_of_the_Holocaust

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0231112149

 

Why should anybody believe you have read these books if you cannot detail the arguments and reference the sources?

"Book A says X" is not a logical argument.

 

where is YOUR evidence that all Nuremberg convicts were tortured?

 

Depends on your definition of the Holocaust.

If you define it as 6 million Jews and assorted minorities being imprisoned and killed by the Germans between 1938 or so and 1945.....that's my understanding.

If you are a filthy racist neo nazi Jew hater and want to downplay the whole thing to attack today's Jews I hope you die soon.

Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not accusing you of that. Just sayin in general

 

All part of the tactic. He basically is calling 15 years of European history is a fraud. He clearly cant support that position. I have 470 odd history books in my collection. Maybe 20 dealing with the period we are discussing. One of them has copies of the Einsatzgruppe sit-reps from the invasion of the Soviet Union. I could spend a day typing the information here, or our debator could access the trials and read them there. He wont because the truth will be difficult.

 

Mikemikev is arguing that all Nuremberg convicts were tortured.

He is arguing that all Holocaust testimony from Jews are lies.

He is arguing that all Holocaust information from Jewish organizations are lies.

He has provided ZERO evidence for his claims, as they are based on irrational & illogical bigotry.

 

Ronstar, everybody knows that revisionist websites are more reliable sources than books.

 

Translation: None = refusal to look at the evidence.

 

[video=youtube;s2-Ozrnyas0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2-Ozrnyas0[/video]

Winter and Spring, 1945. As Allied troops advanced across Europe toward Germany, they encountered Nazi concentration camps and liberated thousands of prisoners. In the camps, combat-hardened soldiers witnessed first-hand the brutality and inhumanity of the Nazi regime and its so-called policies of “racial superiority.” They found piles of unburied corpses and barracks filled with dead and dying prisoners. The small percentage of inmates who survived often required immediate assistance after months and years of maltreatment, starvation, and forced labor at the hands of the Nazis and their collaborators. U.S. Army General Dwight D. Eisenhower made a deliberate visit to the Ohrdruf concentration camp in order to witness personally the evidence of Nazi atrocities. He urged others to see the camps directly, lest “the stories of Nazi brutality” be forgotten or dismissed as “merely propaganda.” The weeks and months following liberation did not bring an immediate return to normal life. Survivors struggled to restore their health, regain their dignity, and rebuild lives disrupted and destroyed during the Holocaust. Sixty-five years after the end of World War II, we honor and remember the victims of the Holocaust and the military personnel who liberated and cared for the survivors.

http://www.ushmm.org/remembrance/dor/video/?content=witnesses

 

How much you want to bet he believes the Soviet starvation of millions of Ukrainians is the God's honest truth?

- - - Updated - - -

dude, this is all just anti-German Allied Zionist propaganda!!!

 

Totally failed response. Handwaving "there are some books". You scholars should be able to tell us what the books say.

 

Still waiting for that evidence.

 

do you have any evidence that all Nuremberg convicts were tortured or is this just a baseless lie?

 

The Institute for Historical Revision had a $50K reward for the evidence you are asking for.

So define first what you think is evidence and we can talk.


Now what is amazing is how this guy can call

1. My dead parents liars who were eye witnesses to the horrors of Germany in the 30s-45.
2. Dozens of friends who are historians, survivors and rescuers liars and perpetrator of a fraud.
3. All Jews suspect, including me, simply for being Jewish.

~ Focus on the topic ~

 

You can't have an honest & mature discussion about the Holocaust with someone who thinks all Jews are liars, all Nazis are liars, all witnesses are liars, bla bla bla.

 

I have too many friends who's families died at the hands of the Germans in the concentration camps, some lost whole families. I guess you can chalk that up to "conspiracy" can't you? Where do you think they all are? With Ron Hubbard in space?

The willful ignorance of some is astounding. I think the only thing that would convince this guy is if he were killing Jews in concentration camps himself.

 

That's a raw authority argument.

 

There are countless cases of "survivor" testimony being obvious fiction. "My cousin saw it" is possibly the lamest evidence. Why should anybody believe your stories here?

~ focus on the topic ~

 

where is your evidence that ALL Nuremberg convicts were tortured?

for someone who demands evidence, you seem to be light on it yourself.

 

Höss was badly tortured. He was the main source for "gas chambers".

 

Evidence?

 

Belzec, Sobibor & Treblinka Death Camps

The Perpetrators Speak





Former Members of the SS-Sonderkommando Belzec describe their experiences

in the Belzec death camp in their own words.







Erich Fuchs poses behind a machine gun

Erich Fuchs



Upon our arrival in Belzec, we met Friedel Schwarz and the other SS men, whose names I cannot remember. They supervised the construction of barracks that would serve as a gas chamber. Wirth told us that in Belzec “all the Jews will be struck down.”



For this purpose barracks were built as gas chambers, I installed shower heads in the gas chambers. The nozzles were not connected to any water pipes, they would serve as camouflage for the gas chamber.



For the Jews who were gassed it would seem as if they were being taken to baths and for disinfection.



Karl Alfred Schluch



In the morning or noon time we were informed by Wirth, Schwarz, or by Oberhauser that a transport with Jews should arrive soon. The disembarkation from the freight cars was carried out by a group of Jewish prisoners under the command of their Kapo’s. Two or three Germans from the camp staff supervised this action.



It was my obligation to carry out such supervision. After the disembarkation, the Jews were told that they had come here for transfer and they should go to bath and disinfection.



This announcement was made by Wirth and translated by a Jewish kapo. Afterwards the Jews were taken to the undressing barracks. My post in the “tube” was close to the undressing barrack. Wirth briefed me that while I was there I should influence the Jews to behave calmly. After leaving the undressing barracks, I had to show the Jews the way to the gas chambers.



I believe that when I showed the Jews the way they were convinced they were really going to the baths. After the Jews entered the gas chambers, the doors were closed by Hackenholt himself or by the Ukrainian subordinate to him.



Lorentz Hackenholt

Then Hackenholt switched on the engine which supplied the gas. After five or seven minutes – and this is only an estimate – someone looked through the small window into the gas chamber to verify whether all inside were dead.



Only then were the outside doors opened and the gas chambers ventilated. After the ventilation of the gas chambers, a Jewish working group under the command of their kapo’s entered and removed the bodies from the chambers.



Occasionally I had to supervise at this place, therefore I can describe the whole process which I saw and witnessed personally. The Jews inside the gas chambers were densely packed, this is the reason that the corpses were not lying on the floor but were mixed up in disorder in all directions, some of them kneeling, according to the amount of space they had.



The corpses were besmirched with mud and urine or with spit. I could see that the lips and tips of the noses were a bluish colour. Some of them had their eyes closed, others eyes rolled. The bodies were dragged out of the gas chambers and inspected by a dentist, who removed finger-rings and gold teeth. After this procedure, the corpses were thrown into a big pit.



Kurt Franz



I heard with my own ears how Wirth, in a quite convincing voice, explained to the Jews that they would be deported further and before that, for hygienic reasons, they must bathe themselves and their clothes would have to be disinfected.



Inside the undressing barrack was a counter for the deposit of valuables. It was made clear to the Jews that after the bath their valuables would be returned to them. I can still hear, until today, how the Jews applauded Wirth after his speech.



This behaviour of the Jews convinces me that the Jews believed Wirth.



Christian Wirth when assigned to Hartheim, with friends

Franz Stangl



Wirth was not in his office, they said he was up at the camp. I asked what was the matter? The man I was talking to said that one of the pits had overflowed. They had put too many corpses in it and putrefaction had progressed to fast so that the liquid underneath had pushed the bodies on top up and over, and the corpses had rolled down the hill.



I saw some of them – oh God it was awful.



Robert Juhrs



I had to carry out the shooting of Jews once. In that transport the cars were overloaded, some of the Jews were unable to walk. Maybe in that confusion, some of the Jews had been pushed down and had been crushed underfoot.



Therefore, there were Jews that, by no means, could cover the way to the undressing barrack. Gottlieb Hering gave me an order to shoot these Jews. He told me verbally, “Juhrs take these Jews to Camp ll immediately and shoot them there.”



These Jews were taken to the gate of Camp ll by a Jewish working group, and from there they were taken to the pits by other working Jews. As I remember there were seven Jews, men and women, who were taken inside the pit. It is hard to describe the condition these people were in, after their long journey in the unimaginably packed freight cars.



I regarded the killing of these people in this way as a mercy and redemption, I shot these Jews with a machine gun, as they stood on the edge of the pit, I aimed directly at their heads so that everyone died instantly. I am absolutely sure that nobody felt any torment.

- - - Updated - - -

Josef Oberhauser



Josef Oberhauser

After those first gassing operations, Wirth, Schwarz and all the German personnel disappeared from Belzec. As his final official act, Wirth had, before his departure gassed or shot the fifty working Jews, including their Kapos’s.



When Wirth and his people departed, I was in Lublin. I had a big transport of material to bring. When I came again to Belzec, nobody was there. In the camp there were about twenty Ukrainian guards. They were under the command of SS-Scarfuhrer Feiks.



Curiously enough, SS and Police Leader Globocnik had no knowledge of the departure of Wirth and his men. He sent me to Belzec to find out in which direction Wirth had gone. I found out that he had left for Berlin via Lvov and Cracow, without reporting to Globocnik.



Karl Schluch



I can relate that I saw the gas chambers in the euthanasia institutions and I was shown the gas chamber in Belzec. These were each about 4 x 8 meters. They had a friendly, bright appearance.



Whether the colour was yellow or gray, I don’t remember. Maybe the walls were painted with oil colours. In any case, the floor and part of the walls were made so that cleaning would be easy.



The newly arriving Jews must not guess the purpose the room served, and they should believe that it was a bath. Vaguely I remember that there were shower heads on the ceiling.





Heinrich Gley

Heinrich Gley



From the beginning of August 1942 until the camp was closed in September 1943 I was in Belzec. As I remember, the gassing stopped at the end of 1942, when the snow was already falling.



Then the unearthing and cremation of the corpses began. It lasted from November 1942 until March 1943. The cremation was conducted day and night without interruption. At first the burning took place at one site, and later on at two.



One cremating site had the capacity to burn 2,000 corpses in twenty-four hours. About four weeks after the beginning of the cremation operation, the second burning site was erected.



On the average, during five months at the first about 300,000 corpses were cremated and in four months at the second burning site, about 240,000 corpses.



Naturally, these are average estimations.



Heinrich Unverhau



SS – Sturmbannfuhrer Hering accused me of being a saboteur because of the fact that during the sorting of the clothes that were sent for utilisation in Germany, a yellow Jewish star was found. Some money was also found there.



These clothes belonged to Jews who were killed in Belzec.



Heinrich Gley



I was assigned with a big Jewish work brigade to the cremation of the corpses by means of railway lines which served as a grate. About 80-90 Jews then worked under my supervision in three shifts.



The rails were placed on top of big rocks and narrow gauge rails served as a cross-mesh. The cremation surface could take about 200 corpses. First a wood fire was kindled under the iron grate.



During the course of the cremation operation the corpses later served as the only fuel. From time to time the badly twisted rails had to be replaced by new ones.



Werner Dubois



Ukrainian guards

The transports to Belzec and, consequently the gassing operations, stopped quite suddenly. As staff members of the Belzec camp, we were informed that the place would be rebuilt completely. A working group of Jews, whose size I don’t remember, was in charge of the demolition work.



It is worth mentioning that at that time March – April 1943 the cremation of the corpses was terminated and the graves were levelled. The camp was emptied entirely and levelled accordingly. I heard that some planting was done there.

The Jewish work commando, after accomplishing this work, was taken to Sobibor. I remained in Belzec for two more days, together with some of my colleagues and guards, to carry out the last clearing and loading.



Some time later, when I was in Sobibor, I heard that during the transport of the Jewish work commando from Belzec to Sobibor some mutiny and shooting took place which led to some deaths.



Heinrich Unverhau



A few weeks before the uprising in Sobibor I and three other SS men and a larger group of Ukrainians auxiliaries were again ordered to go to Belzec. We were doing forestation work there.



We had to prevent the Poles from turning the whole area upside down in their searches for gold.







Former Members of the SS-Sonderkommando Sobibor

describe their experiences in the Sobibor death camp in their own words.





Franz Stangl



Wirth told me that I should definitely become the commander of Sobibor. I answered that I was not qualified for such a mission. I received from Globocnik the task to erect the camp. That it was not to be an ammunition camp but a camp for killing Jews I learned finally from Wirth.



During the discussion with Wirth he told me if I would not do it, another would come. He would then put me back at the disposal of the Brigadefuhrer Globocnik. Actually I was not relieved of my post.



I stayed in Sobibor, transports arrived and were liquidated.



Stangl entertains friends



Erich Fuchs



As ordered by Wirth I drove an LKW to Lvov, fetched a gas motor and transported it to Sobibor. When I arrived at Sobibor, close to the railway station I saw a tract of land with a concrete construction and some other solid buildings.



The Sonderkommando there were commanded by Thomalla. Other members of the SS who attended were F.B. Stangl, F.Schwartz, Kurt Bolender and others. We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine – presumably a tank or tractor motor at least 200 horsepower V-motor, 8 cylinders, water cooled.



We installed the engine on a concrete foundation and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube. I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running.



The chemist whom I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas. Following this a gassing experiment was carried out.



If my memory serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the above mentioned SS members and by Ukrainian auxiliaries.



When the women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in motion. The motor functioned first in neutral. Both of us stood by the motor and switched from neutral to Cell, so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber.



At the suggestion of the chemist I fixed the motor on a definitive speed so that it was unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later the thirty to forty women were dead. The chemist and the SS Leader gave the sign to stop the motor. I packed my tools and saw how the corpses were removed. The transportation was done with a lorry trail that led from the gas chambers to a remote plot.