Face masks made ‘little to no difference’ in preventing spread of COVID, scientific review finds

Ghost writer. LOL

Bet you can’t quote me saying I didn’t understand!

What press release? Post it.
I didn’t dispute anything. I provided evidence the claim masks were in short supply was not true. You think the New York Times published a conspiracy theory?

You did not address the content. You addressed me, which is a fallacy.

Everything I’ve posted is factual and verifiable.

Your choice. Sad you don’t even know what it is.

Only because I told you. You thought this.

If you don’t know NASA is a government agency but believe it is a method of deployment instead it is very logical to suspect you are also unaware the CDC is a government agency like NASA.

It’s unbelievable you think NASA is a method of deployment and not a part of the US government. The shuttle was a method of deployment. NASA is a government agency—it is part of the US government.

Do you know what classified means? Anything the government deems classified drums up conspiracy theories. Doesn’t matter if it’s Area 51 or something unidentified sent the other direction.

Conspiracy theories involve subjective speculations that don’t have supporting evidence. My posts contain only verifiable information in the form of peer reviewed studies, official government data (that a conspiracy theorist would reject), on the record statements by bureaucrats (that can not be conspiratorial because they are objective not subjective), and verifiable facts about biology (for example the overwhelming majority of respiratory diseases spread presymptomatically and/or asymptomatically).

My posts are fully documented with facts and evidence produced through application of the scientific method. Conspiracy theories are speculative and based on unverifiable claims, anonymous sources, and verifiably incorrect data (like mRNA vaccines alter DNA).

See the difference?

 

Thanks for your reply. "SMH" and "LOL"

Why would you think that post was intended to address any "anti vax crap"? BE SPECIFIC!

Nope, I didn't. As I said YOU didn't understand. There was perfect logic in it!

Let's rewind a little where you said this:

Then I said this to a fellow debunker of conspiracy crap:

Now see if you can work out who "another poster" might be!
SMH

 

The other poster posts conspiracy theories such as “the WHO advised the Trump administration to implement travel bans with China prior to the implementation of the ban”.

That is a conspiracy theory because it makes an unsupported speculation with no supporting evidence.

Of course there is a multitude of evidence showing that is indeed a conspiracy theory. Including published WHO recommendations from the period before and AFTER the ban recommending AGAINST travel bans. It is a conspiracy theory to propose the WHO was advising the Trump administration in the opposite direction than their official globally published recommendations.

I know who you were referencing. A conspiracy theorist. I asked you a DIRECT QUESTION as to WHY! I never said I didn’t understand WHAT you did, I ASKED you why. I am not a mind reader. So I ASKED a question denoted with a question mark.

The WHO advised the US government differently than their published global recommendations. LOL. You love conspiracy theories from @MuchAdo.

 

I believe bandannas made better sense than those face masks. If you want to know my opinion.

 

This has to be THE most bizarre failure to understand a simple statement that I have seen.

YOU claimed you posted against conspiracy theories. With me so far?
I posted to a fellow poster who posts against conspiracy theories. Still there?
I said at least we had "another poster". As in ANOTHER! Got that?
That would be YOU!
SMH

 

Can’t be me. I’ve been correcting disinformation and misinformation about vaccines since before they received EUA’s.

I didn’t “claim” I posted content against vaccine disinformation, I provided actual posts using the PF quote function of me doing so. I didn’t “claim” I posted against vaccine conspiracy theories. I posted a post of mine using the PF quote function of a detailed post refuting the conspiracy revolving around VAERS reports and reported lost pregnancies.

Finally, you have repeatedly claimed MY CONTENT is conspiracy theory and insinuated I’m a conspiracy theorists. You are telling someone there is another poster willing to combat conspiracy theories when you repeatedly refer to that “another” poster as involved in conspiracy themselves.

Yes your posts are absolutely bizarre. In that we can agree. I simply asked WHY you posted something so bizarre, I didn’t say I didn’t understand the content.

And again, @MuchAdo is on record posting conspiracy theories about travel bans. So when you say this below, you are posting disinformation because you have been shown this poster doesn’t fight conspiracy but posts conspiracy.

 

I didn’t ask you if you were a farmer.

 

Facepalming stuff. You didn't understand the simple statement and here we are 3 or 4 posts later and it still hasn't sunk in.

 

Conspiracy theory: “a belief that an event or situation is the result of a secret plan made by powerful people”.

Conspiracy theory: “a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators.”
also : “a theory asserting that a secret of great importance is being kept from the public.”

It seems you have no idea what a conspiracy theory is, therefore spreading misinformation. Or you do know and are spreading disinformation about me.

I was directly referring to the actions that Trump took, not some secret influential organization. So let’s not exaggerate. He took too long to impose any restrictions. That’s my opinion and the opinion of many. It’s certainly not a conspiracy theory. I also think the UK acted too slowly in many respects as well.

It is absolutely true that Trump waited four weeks too long to impose restrictions on travel from China. He actually never instituted a ban on travel from China. His restricted travel measures left the country open to many more infections.

After reading my post, I do believe I misquoted a number which should have been 40,000 not 430,000.

As far as reported in quite a few sources, on January 31st, Trump announced the US would temporarily “ban” the admission of people who were in China 14 days prior to ‘their attempted travel to the United States’. This restriction started on February 2nd but exempted — US citizens, green card holders, and certain other people. Seems a fairly racist policy to me and of course what would you expect from a man who referred to the virus as the ‘chinese’ virus with a whole load of contempt.

The 430,000 people quoted were the number that flew on direct flights from China to the USA from when the China first disclosed the outbreak. The report that this comes from apparently did not account for travellers who didn’t fly directly from China. This number could have dramatically been reduced if Trump had acted faster.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...ct-flights-from-china-nyt-120040500213_1.html

After the ban on February 2nd went into effect, 40,000 more people entered the US from China. That does nothing to stop the virus from entering the US unless the virus could only infect Chinese people. It has been reported numerous times that the US was dismal at tracking those who entered the country.

He failed to restrict people from other countries while the virus was rapidly spreading throughout the world. It took until February 29, 2020 for Trump to issues travel warnings for South Korea, Iran and Italy, where the outbreak has been particularly strong.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/03/politics/coronavirus-trump-cdc-timeline/

Quote from Trump after he instituted the Chinese travel restriction:

“I do think we were very early, but I also think that we were very smart, because we stopped China,” Trump said at a briefing last week. “That was probably the biggest decision we made so far.”

It wasn’t good enough.

The question is: Did Trump fully ban travel from China. No he did not, he restricted it to certain Chinese citizens only initially. He referred to this restriction as a ‘strong wall’. It was a wall full of holes. It was reported that more than 8’000 Chinese and foreign nationals based in China’s Hong Kong and Macao territories were allowed into the USA after February 2nd for three months.

Links to Trump’s travel restrictions.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...rus-outbreak-355a58005d4f7c57978f6b7cba5dbd82

https://apnews.com/article/e5544a45250434154d01cd54183a55a3

https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...g-wall-to-block-covid-19-from-china-had-holes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/01/debate-early-travel-bans-china/

I guess in the end, Trump didn’t even impose a ban at all, it was simply a restriction. So, no I am not making up conspiracy theories. That is a ridiculous accusation. I do apologize for getting the numbers mixed up. I certainly didn’t do it on purpose.

I look at it the way I do because I know Fauci’s professional history. I am not stupid enough to scapegoat the actions of one man especially when other countries were also trying to save N95 masks for hospitals and other healthcare agencies at the beginning of the Pandemic or simply not encouraging the use of masks. — https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-opinion-coronavirus-global-face-mask-adoption/
Why are you just lambasting Fauci when the WHO initially discouraged mask wearing as well? https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html It’s a total exaggeration that Fauci was “anti” masks. I wasn’t looking the other way, I just choose not to blame one man for the same choices occurring in many different countries. In fact, while all of this was going on I was supplying my own family and friends who wanted them with N95 masks. I think Fauci, overall, has done a great deal of positive work for the US and the world for decades. Your comments are an exaggeration and unfair.

 

So? Did I say you asked if I was a farmer? You people do love your FALLACIES arguments!

Remember asking THIS?

I DIRECTLY answered YOUR question. I’m sorry it upsets you that there are professionals other than yourself who have knowledge of epidemiology, virology and practice of medicine. You are not the first person offended that a farmer knows more about science than they do.

You probably won’t be the last.

 

No. It hasn’t sunk in for you that your descriptions of me do not fit. You describe an individual but that description doesn’t fit me no matter how many fallacies and false accusations you post.

You are attempting to fit me into a box I don’t fit in.

 

I’m on record from way back on PF saying travel restrictions were not adequate. That’s not the problem here. Your conspiracy theory is that the WHO was advising Trump to ban travel before the ban (or restrictions if that’s a better term). That’s pure conspiracy because the WHO is on record with published recommendations before, during and after the Trump administration imposed restrictions advising AGAINST travel restrictions. I laid this all out with EVIDENCE to you already.

Also, I provided evidence no country preceded the US in travel restrictions by more than a few days. This also shows your opinion to be based on conspiracy. The US (Trump administration) was right in line with other global countries being advised by epidemiologists around the globe. It’s conspiracy theory to say the US was late or inadequate exclusively because the facts show otherwise. You say I blame Fauci exclusively when I haven’t. But you keep only criticizing the US travel restrictions when they were similar in scope and timing to global countries with no Trump administration.

I’m not scapegoating one man. The entire NIH (including CDC) were actively withholding masks from the public between January 2021 and September 2021. I’ve provided evidence from the NYT as well as individual mask manufacturers and official CDC publications demonstrating this FACT. You not anyone else in the time since Feb./March 2021 when I first started pointing out this FACT on PF had been able to show any counter evidence or any evidence the NYT and mask manufacturers were in error.

Yes, the WHO is a dumpster fire on many occasions as well. That doesn’t change the fact Fauci and the CDC told a plethora of lies about masks (disinformation) and cost countless lives as a result.

You are STILL defending Fauci and entities that discouraged and actively PREVENTED mask usage.

Fauci is a very intelligent man. I’ve always said so along with my criticisms. But he’s dishonest and it cost lives. He was smart enough to craft lies that fooled folks like you.

 

Continuing this ridiculous sequence of posts. Do you know what the word flippant means!? Do you know what sarcasm is?

"Well at least there is another poster ready to take up the endless tirade of antivax crap".

Do I believe you will? No! Do I care? No!

And?

 

I asked you —

And you were responding to the post that I wrote that in. So, you don’t work in the health-care field of human beings do you? You are a farmer according to many of your posts where you have said that. I am sorry but I would not walk onto your farm and dare tell you how to run it in terms of all the animal care you obviously do. You wouldn’t walk into a hospital and tell the Physicians, Nurses, and Respiratory therapists, and all the others who work with humans how to do their job. Or maybe you would.

I am not offended by your knowledge at all. Why would I be? Not at all. You seem to very knowledgeable. You could outknowledge me in many things that you know about, but I at the same time could outknowledge you in terms of the knowledge I possess. It’s not a contest. People know what they know. I know a lot about some things and very little about others. That is true of everybody. Stop looking for negativity in people, it really doesn’t suit you well.

To be honest, judging by the way you treat people on this forum, it’s probably good you chose not to work in the health-care field.

 

That’s the pot calling the kettle black. Oh and by the way, stop posting disinformation that I am posting conspiracy theories because I’m not. An opinion is not a conspiracy theory and you keep attributing things to me that I never said.

Where did I say that the WHO was advising Trump to ban travel. You have quoted my post where I spoke about Trump and travel restrictions. See below.

I said ‘despite warnings from his own admin and other US officials’. I said Chinese officials had notified Trump of the outbreak in Wuhan. The Chinese were also telling the WHO. It was news all over. Your failure is that you don’t understand that there is a difference between the WHO and ‘US officials at the WHO’. If I was only referring to the WHO, I wouldn’t have mentioned the US officials that were there but weren’t actually working for the WHO. There is a huge difference. Anyways, whatever, you have totally misconstrued my post and accused me of starting a conspiracy theory which is a big fat lie. Again, I DID NOT start a conspiracy theory related to Trump and the WHO. So why don’t man up, realize your error, stop putting words into peoples mouths, and retract your disinformation.

First of all, Fauci did not ‘prevent’ mask use. He discouraged it. Did he ever say, you must not wear masks?

You are lambasting me for supporting Fauci because you believe him to be anti-mask. You didn’t mention anyone else or any other entity in your post. I can’t read minds you know. It wasn’t just Fauci that cost lives. The whole freaking Pandemic wasn’t just down to Fauci and the USA isn’t the only country in the world. I am not sure dishonest is the right word to use though. I guess I view the world a different way and believe he was doing, at the time, what he thought was best unlike Trump who is a total moron who only does best for himself. Who are you to decide anything about my views? I am defending Fauci as a person. There were huge mask shortages around the world. My in laws have a son with cystic fibrosis and they couldn’t get N95 masks for ages in Canada. In the UK, there were PPE shortages all over the place in hospitals. Was all this down to Fauci. Many, many people cost lives during the Pandemic. I am pretty sure that over his career Fauci has save many millions of lives through his work. I recognize that. How many lives has Trump saved? How many deaths did Trump indirectly cause during the Pandemic?

At the end of the day, your opinion about Fauci is yours and you don’t have to force it on to others in such a nasty way.

As far as the NYT article goes. You have repeatedly stated there was no mask shortage during the Pandemic and basically have had a go at anybody who says otherwise. The whole article basically looks like there could have been lots of N95 masks available a year into the Pandemic when private companies were able to manufacture them but couldn’t distribute them due to Federal legislation, screwed up purchasing systems of hospitals, monopolies of medical supply distributors. It seems that Facebook and Google were banning the sales and advertising of N95 masks as well. So in reality, there was a shortage of N95 masks, not because there weren’t any, but because they weren’t being distributed. I am pretty sure Fauci must have been aware of this lack of distribution and the other issues. So was he really lying about holding masks back for the health care system? I don’t think so. That is my opinion and I don’t care what you think about it. It wasn’t up to Fauci to sort out the system of mask distribution in the US, now was it? The article also refers to the number of masks available a year into the Pandemic, not during the first year. It seems in took months and months for the little private companies to get permission and jump through the hoops of producing the masks and getting them on the market, which in the end they had great difficulty. This not Fauci’s failure.

The NYT published an article in March of 2020 stating there was a dire shortage of masks.

https://archive.ph/znME3

There was an obvious shortage for months. Fauci’s comments reflect this which was why he suggested try to save what was available for the health care workers. Was Fauci supposed to force the distribution of masks through a system that obviously didn’t work? How was he supposed to deal with the lack of distribution that the NY Times addressed? I have chosen to give the man the break he deserves.

Bye now. I think I have said all I want to say to you. Or not.

 

Ok. We will add flippant and sarcastic to your current accomplishments of fallacy and conspiracy theory.

Still no evidence from you that your opinions are correct or that the EVIDENCE I’ve posted is incorrect or incomplete.

Evidence is what I care about.

 

Why lie about it? You posted THIS.

I replied with this.

Then, instead of addressing the CONTENT of both our posts you said THIS.

Now. I’m not the one calling people idiots. Or using the word stupid. That would be the people you “like” posts of and who quote your posts to me. You may wish to examine your behavior and that of the people you approve of here on PF.

Now, PLEASE quote where I have told ANY healthcare worker what to do or how to run their operations. Go ahead.

You asked about my experience. I told you. You are looking for negativity IN ME. You do not address the content of my posts but only post ad hominem and other fallacies.

Yes, if you really are a healthcare professional I would not want to work alongside. I would prefer to work with people who can accept evidence produced through application of the scientific method and if they have an opposing opinion would supply their own evidence instead of attacking the bearer of the information they dislike.

 

I respond directly to your content. It is a conspiracy to believe the WHO was advising different administrations in different manners. There is NO evidence of that. It is your made up opinion.

You are welcome to present evidence the WHO or WHO officials were advising different countries differently. You are welcome to substantiate your theory some WHO people were going against official WHO guidance in their communications with the Trump administration. Go ahead. But as of now it’s all just your speculation. Speculating on rogue employees and an institution advising different countries differently than published official advice is wholehearted conspiracy theory.

I said he was anti mask. Do you know any anti maskers who say you must not wear a mask? What a bizarre argument.

Another false claim. I’ve routinely referred to Fauci etal. and to the CDC/NIH when I’ve posted about masks. It was not just Fauci. But he KNEW cloth masks were not equivalent to N95s. He KNEW asymptomatic and presymptomatic spread were occurring and still discouraged use of masks. I showed you both South Korea and Japan were making CORRECT policy decisions on masks and quarantine based on observed pre and asymptomatic spread months before Fauci was still lying about “not knowing”. Fauci KNEW there was not sufficient PPE in April 2020, but in July 2020 he lied, claiming he finally recommended masks in April because there was sufficient supply. Fauci KNEW the overwhelming majority of respiratory viruses spread asymptomatically and presymptomatically but erroneously “assumed” this one would not. At least that was his claim. You are defending a man who lies possibly as much as Trump. It’s amusing.

Yes, all other public health entities were on board this nonsense. That’s why I refer to the CDC and NIH in general as well.

Sigh. I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED THERE WAS NO SHORTAGE OF MASKS FROM START OF PANDEMIC TO DECEMBER 2020/JANUARY 2021. Fauci did make that claim. . Please read what I post and respond to my content. Stop with the strawman arguments. They just show you either aren’t reading my posts or can not address their content.

When masks were in oversupply starting in January 2021, thd CDC, Fauci, and ALL OTHER US HEALTHCARE ENTITIES lied about availability until September 2021. The CDC TOLD retailers they couldn’t advertise/sell these masks. They literally had published advice telling people there was a shortage and not to buy/use them.

Hospitals in the US deprived workers of available masks. It’s all in the posts I’ve shown you. Mask manufacturers were going to hospitals with product in hand and were turned down. One excuse was they didn’t want to fit test different masks. They were giving employees a mask a week while simultaneously rejecting purchase of offered domestically manufactured NIOSH approved N95 masks.

After January 2021 I could have helped your in laws get masks. I was routinely posting links to retailers outside the control of the CDC who were selling reasonably priced US made masks CERTIFIED BY THE CDC. I was private messaging discount codes to PF members who needed assistance starting in February 2021.

None of this is opinion. It’s subjective fact. It’s not my opinion Fauci and the CDC and others lied. It’s objective fact.

When South Korea had a shortage they worked to help people GET masks. They didn’t lie and tell people not to wear them or that cloth masks were as good or that there weren’t any when there were. While the CDC was still telling retailers not to sell N95s, European governments were buying N95 equivalents and mailing them to at risk citizens!

There was no great difficulty in making masks in the US. Production ramped up quickly. The CDC inspected factories, inspected and certified the masks produced. And kept people from buying them by telling retailers NOT to sell them and by telling Americans NOT to buy them.

It was diabolical. But some people like Fauci and appeal to authority so facts don’t matter. It’s sad.

 

Me too, bolding mine. There will be another pandemic, probably more sooner than later. Were the same things to occur again, there would be a case for all the noise being made. I would like to think that even if that clown Trump is back when it happens, then at least the response infrastructure will be there to take correct steps.

 

Your failure to:

1. Read posts accurately
2. To misunderstand posts
3. To constantly misquote other posters
4. Address people without putting them down
5. To actually not change the meaning of posts
6. Not to make assumptions

Is absolutely astounding.

People who constantly use the words ‘ad hominem’ and ‘fallacy’ generally suffer from low self-esteem and are driven to impress others. Now is that an ‘ad hominem’ , a ‘fallacy’ or both?

You don’t even know what I do as a health care professional and yet you make assumptions — every thing we do is absolutely driven by the scientific method. There is no room for non-science in what I do or anybody else I work with.

I don’t dislike you as a person because I have never met you in person but on this forum you behave in an aggressive and unpleasant manner in most of your posts. I am sure others would agree. Call me what you want. I care not. The people around me love me and appreciate me. I hope you are different from what you present yourself as on this website.

I have examined my behaviour and approve of it. Thank you.

I have done what you have expected by just focusing on you.

By the way, when I like a post, I am liking the content, not the person.

If you want to accuse me of something — that would be ‘sarcastic’.

 

Do you know any anti-maskers who wear a mask? What a bizarre argument.

 

Ok. So you like posts that refer to people as idiots but disapprove of my behavior.

Your posts often deny evidence produced through application of the scientific method. The instances of Fauci and the CDC I’ve presented show they deny evidence produced through application of the scientific method.

I’ve made no assumptions about you. I asked you questions about your profession which you don’t answer. Otherwise I have addressed the content of your posts by providing evidence your claims are incorrect and conflict with evidence.

If you wish to address ME instead of the CONTENT of my posts, go ahead. But it’s you who can’t comprehend posts. You accused me of saying masks were not in short supply early in the land. This is either you not reading/comprehending or it is a lie. I don’t know which.


You have lied outright about the flow of our exchange. I posted pull quotes of the questions you asked and my answer. You selectively edit and to create a false impression of our exchange.

You are now just projecting your rude and disingenuous behavior onto others.
I am glad you do this as it further demonstrates your inability to address the content of my posts. You have conceded that you can not defend the content of your posts and you can not provide evidence any of my posts are inaccurate.

 

Yes. I know many anti maskers who wore masks.

Fauci is one.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/masks-effective-study-respected-group-misinterpreted/story?id=97846561
"Recently, a review from the Cochrane Library set off a firestorm after headlines declared research published by the respected organization's study found masks don't work and don't stop community transmission of respiratory viruses like COVID-19.

Over a two-month period, some commentators and politicians took to op-ed pieces and social media to say the study proved masks weren't needed the whole time and that mandates had been ineffective.

However, the editor-in-chief of the Cochrane Library, Dr. Karla Soares-Weiser, issued a statement on March 10 to say the analysis had been misinterpreted and that the review didn't find that masks do not work.

Rather it looked at how effective masking programs, like mandates, were at slowing the spread of respiratory viruses and, from there, found the results to be inconclusive.

"Many commentators have claimed that a recently updated Cochrane Review shows that 'masks don't work,' which is an inaccurate and misleading interpretation," Soares-Weiser wrote. "It would be accurate to say that the review examined whether interventions to promote mask wearing help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses, and that the results were inconclusive."

Experts told ABC News the findings from the meta-analysis from the Cochrane Library have not been accurately represented and that evidence shows masks do help prevent the spread of COVID-19.

How the Cochrane review addressed different questions
The Cochrane review, published in late January, looked at several studies that had examined physical interventions to reduce the spread of respiratory viruses.

Many of the studies analyzed looked at masking interventions, meaning how effective masks are if people are given masks and information about masking, and encouraged to wear them. However, giving people masks does not necessarily mean that people will wear masks.

"The study was misinterpreted and, when you give it a very quick glance, you see how that would happen," Dr. Jessica Justman, an associate professor of medicine in epidemiology at Columbia Mailman School of Public Health, told ABC News. "It's looking at interventions that tried to promote the use of different kinds of protective equipment, such as masks, and the outcomes are all going to depend on how well people actually adhere to the particular type of protective equipment."

She continued, "So, it's not as much a study of the mask but a study of the intervention to get people to wear a mask."

 

He wasn’t anti-mask and there is ample evidence demonstrating that you are posting misinformation. He wasn’t anti-mask, he flipped-flopped on his decision.

March 31st, 2020 — https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/fauci-mask-recommendation-coronavirus-157476

April 30,2020 — https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/w...-face-masks-and-staying-home-as-virus-spreads

September 30th, 2020 — https://abcnews.go.com/Health/live-...fter-presidential-debate-73340738?id=73333438

— https://edition.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45

September 2nd, 2023 — https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4184424-fauci-defends-masking-as-covid-cases-rise/

As you you can see Fauci was never anti-mask so stop spreading misinformation which in this case is a polite word for ‘bullshit’.