Five missing teenage girls recovered in New Orleans through‘Operation Boo Dat

Aleksander Ulyanov · Jan 5, 2022

kazenatsu said: ↑

I see, so nobody should be allowed to own guns and everyone should have a tracking device implanted into them when they are an infant.

Is it fair to say you are not a Republican?
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Not since I grew up

FoxHastings · Jan 6, 2022

kazenatsu said: ↑
Most parents abrogate their responsibilities away to the schools these days. "Let somebody else do it", "Let the government do it." It's not really their job to educate their children.
Plus, marriage is increasingly being seen as falling into irrelevance these days, by many people.

FreshAir said: ↑

the right sure supports marriage, how many has Trump had now? how many baby mammas he have
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Yup, those Repubs love marriage so much they have as many as they want !!!

FoxHastings · Jan 7, 2022

kazenatsu said: ↑

I'm going to say something incredibly racist here, but when the 15 and 16 year old girls are Black it's most often not the same type of "abuse" as it is when the girls of a similar age are white.

In the African American community, it's not very uncommon for 15, 14 (even 13) year old girls to go out there and have lots of sex with many boys, oftentimes a little bit older.
Of course I'm not saying that's entirely right, but it's common, it's not abnormal.
I don't think these girls in this sort of situation are being "scared" the same sort of way that white girls would be.
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And you got this intimate knowledge of 13 year old black girls where?

557 · Jan 7, 2022

MJ Davies said: ↑

@557, it's not they don't know the difference willfully. It's that some people have never had to question that. What I mean is a behavior isn't necessarily "good" or "bad" because its interpretation is fluid.

For example:

Imagine a child living in the following situations.

I'll use the topic of race or non-heterosexuality.

Grandparents viewpoint: "All non-white people are bad. They're evil and God should have drowned them. I'll disown you ever bring a n***** or f***** to my house. I don't want to disown you but I will not tolerate those despicable animals anywhere near me and you shouldn't either!

Parent(s): Grandma doesn't really hate black people or gay people but, she is set in her ways. *I* don't hate them either but I would never associate with them because, well "what would my friends or neighbors think?" So, it's best that you don't talk to them at school or church. It's not their fault that God made them black (or gay). Just don't do it. It's better this way. I promise.

Older siblings (parents and grandparents died): I know that our grandparent(s) had some rather harsh views about people not like us, but she isn't a bad person. She was just that way. Mom and Dad learned those views as kids. I don't really mind if you want to bring a school friend home sometimes but just don't bring any black or gay people. It's not that I hate them. I just...well, just don't do it. Sure you can talk to them and play at school, but we have to keep up appearances. Our neighbors wouldn't understand. You understand, right?

Foster parent(s): Come here, kid. This is my house so my rules. You have to clean the kitchen and bathrooms top to bottom, left to right. You have to earn your keep around here and I don't take backtalk. Yes, sir. I'm the boss here and you will be my n*****. Now, go clean. It better be done right. I don't even know why I deal with you. Your own parents didn't want you.

And on and on.

Now, keep in mind that all the people that influence our perspective about the world around us shape who we become. This is probably the #1 reason that many people will not adopt an older child. Many have already suffered major losses in their young lives and many have already reached their own opinions about the world around them and many have been so traumatized that they basically become feral. Adopting an infant or younger child, unless they are born with alcohol/drugs in their system or a major lifelong medical condition, don't bring that kind of baggage.

And, since things don't happen in a vacuum, the hypothetical child in these different scenarios has countless interactions with the people or person that raises them so the *messages* about race and/or sexuality are surrounded by other events with that person. A child will not know that those viewpoints are NOT *everybody's* viewpoint because they have nothing to compare it to.

We see this a lot on the net. Someone will express a viewpoint, another person will counter it and they butt heads because each of them think their way of thinking is *THE* "right way" instead of *THEIR* right way.

Now, our hypothetical kid has matured and starts venturing out in the world. A lifetime of exposure to whomever raised them will invariably be used as the measure against different viewpoints. When they encounter a situation in which those earlier messages, they are forced to either shift their perspective, ignore the new information or deny the new information.

Let's say our hypothetical kid is white. A kid gets his dad's guns and kills a bunch of people at his school.

If the gunman is white, our hypothetical kid will automatically be able to differentiate between his race and his actions.
If the gunman is non-white, our hypothetical kid will automatically associate the crime with the gunman's race.

So, the more exposure you have with different people around us, gives us the opportunity to add those experiences when encountering any future situation.

Sadly, many people aren't willing to consider their viewpoint is really just an opinion and not universal law for everybody. Most things are fluid.

A few months back, I responded to a post about why black people are stupid and worthless and added some links and stats to prove that was untrue. The person I responded to resorted to calling me stupid and ignorant and nothing I said is worth a damn. He didn't care that he was wrong. He didn't care if he was hateful. He only cared that I did not agree with him. When we reads posts around the net, it is easy to see how they rely on one another to validate their negative opinions about <whatever they hate> and each time they are validated, the dig in deeper to dismiss anything that refutes their viewpoint.

The shorter way to say all that is "People will only come to understand other people's perspective when they either

(1) choose to acknowledge someone else's point of view or

(2) they are forced to acknowledge someone else's point of view."
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Again good points. Perspective is important. I guess what bothers me is the inability of many to face objective “truths”. We should all be able to accept not having a father has negative consequences for children. Not because of perspective or personal experience, but because there is overwhelming quantitative and qualitative evidence it is so. Those of us that were blessed to have good fathers and those of us that had bad fathers and those of us that had no fathers should be able to all accept the reality that having a good father has positive effects on kids while having a bad or absent father has negative effects on kids.

Well, I don't mean to sound mean but I really don't care what baggage the mother was carrying. Sorry, I just don't and here's why.
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I agree 100%. It’s still her choice how she reacts no matter her personal experience.

I was hated and abused by my parents until I was in my 40s (I cut it off at that pass and just didn't engage no matter how sugar sweet they made it sound to go back there). I was married but we didn't have kids until 13 years later. When I talked to people about my childhood abuse, many of them would tell me that I wasn't being fair because I didn't know what my parents might have gone through in their own lives. I was told that I would burn in hell for not forgiving them (btw, I did not not forgive them. I love both of my parents and they are psychos. It's not mutually exclusive). I was told that I just didn't understand that they may not have known how to be good parents or they shouldn't abuse me. [That makes no sense to me so don't try to process that part ---].

I have always been open to hear different points of view (which is why I can't get *stuck* in the mindset of what I described earlier in this response. So, for two decades I knew that I was advocating for abuse survivors so they knew they weren't alone AND mentally acknowledging that my parents and possibly their parents had some junk in their closets that caused them to go rogue on their offspring.

Then, we had a child and ALL of that came crashing down. All that time, I accepted that I might have been too harsh with my viewpoint of my parents. I wasn't a parent so I couldn't definitely say that was wrong. I didn't know. However, when I became a parent, what my parents put me through made even LESS sense to me. I am not a violent person but I could literally take someone's life for hurting one or both of my children. Absolutely no doubt on that point. So, not only did I not understand *why* they hated and tormented me, I didn't even understand *how* they could hate and torture me.

I have never yelled at my children.
I have never hit my children.
I have never spanked my children.
I have never punished my children.
I have never cut them down.
I have never thrown them on the streets.
I have never gotten them fired (well, they are too young to have jobs so this one is from the future
I have never not shown patience, love and understanding toward them.

Using the first section I wrote...because I was willing to accept that my parents were probably psycho because of whatever happened to each of them in early life, I was able to differentiate that viewpoint when I became a parent myself. The other side of that is me rejecting and all information that did not support my viewpoint they are psychos.

And, because I was able to make that shift, it opened the door for me to NOT punish my children by isolating them from my parents or punish my parents by not giving them the opportunity to have relationships with my children. My father passed in June of last year and I have mixed feelings about my grieving process but I have absolutely NO hesitation about being supportive and understanding to my children because of their loss of their grandfather.

I never did that because I don't believe it to be ethically or morally sound. I refuse to do that to anybody. I took the exact same stance in my divorce. I never once kept the kids from my ex and I never once said anything about the real reasons we were separated and divorcing and I'll take all that horrible stuff I know to my grave unless one or both of my children come to me, as adults, and wants answers. And, if either or both of them came to me and said that my ex was sick or injured and they wanted my help. I would be there. To me, all the things that transpired were not their fault and when I add up all the 462,987,543 reasons I no longer like or respect my ex, it doesn't come anywhere CLOSE to how much I love our children.

People always ask me how can I "be so kind to an ex that did <all the garbage that happened>"? My answer is that it has nothing to do with who my ex is, but WHO I AM.

So, again, I can't say that I have much empathy for the mother I mentioned. The moment a woman decides to keep a pregnancy, she has not only accepted the responsibility of providing financially for that child, she also has the responsibility of providing emotionally for that child. The dumbest reason I have heard people say about why they had a child is "I wanted a friend." This is part of why I'm pro-choice. Nobody should bring a life in the world to create a built-in friend. That's ridiculous and we can't be "friends" with our kids because the relationship is not equal and, if we want our child/ren to grow up to be self-respecting, society-respecting, honest, kind and responsible, it is our obligation not to blur the lines between friendship and parent. Personally, I'd rather have my kids have the values, morals and ethics that I have but I don't demand it or make them pretend. They both know they can come to me about anything and we'll figure it no matter what it is. That's what responsible parents should do so it's impossible for me excuse the mother in that case. I'm sorry. That's probably cruel but her kid didn't ask to be raped by her mother's boyfriend and why the hell didn't she kick him out if she didn't end his life in that moment? No, she doesn't get a pass. We all face hardships and want to hide under our blankets. Adulting is hard. If a person can't do it, they shouldn't bring an innocent kid into their lives.

Of course. Thanks for talking to me about this. As you know, fighting for the underdog is who I am. ;-0
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That’s fascinating about how having a child solidified and confirmed your correct perception that what your parents did was wrong no matter their life experience or hardships.

I couldn’t agree more with your statement we shouldn’t bring kids into the world if we can’t or won’t provide for them physically and psychologically/developmentally. I’ve actually heard people say they want kids for the “friendship”. That seems very strange for an adult to need or want juvenile friends. I think it shows they aren’t actually adults mentally.

Sure, this is a fascinating discussion I enjoy. I think people with kids could learn a lot from your experiences. I’m thankful you share them with us. I’m afraid most kids are the underdogs today in our society. We all need to fight for them.

kazenatsu · Jan 7, 2022

557 said: ↑

I’m afraid most kids are the underdogs today in our society. We all need to fight for them.
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I've heard a lot of people in this very forum say "I don't care what happens 40 years from now. I'll be dead or in a rest home by then."
They obviously don't care a bit what future will be left to the next generation.

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Five missing teenage girls recovered in New Orleans through‘Operation Boo Dat

Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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557 Well-Known Member

kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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Five missing teenage girls recovered in New Orleans through‘Operation Boo Dat

Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

FoxHastings Well-Known Member

FoxHastings Well-Known Member

557 Well-Known Member

kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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