Freedom or Covid: You pick, North/South Dakota

Why don't you go look up the definition of the word "obfuscation", or better yet take a look at what you referred me to.

 

that's quite hilarious.

 

I referred you to a peer reviewed analysis of what the actual IFR of Covid is. You were comparing the March estimates of case fatality rates for Covid to the historical infection fatality rate of influenza (which I can show is incorrect as well by the way). That is a huge factual error on your part. You are presenting gross misinformation on PF. I’m trying to help educate you so that you can live up to Biden administration standards on truth and transparency. You do want to post accurate information here, right?

Now, go back and compare IFR’s of influenza and Covid instead of trying to compare apples and oranges by mixing IFR with CFR comparisons. Or don’t, and confirm that you really don’t care about facts and correct information.

 

sad but true

 

Yah..

as of March 3

Clever....

 

I assume you are not referring to a quarter million avoidable deaths as hilarious....so let's look again:

"The federal government could have simply said: stay home for as long as it takes, and we will change the digits in your bank accounts to enable you to to buy food and pay for the essentials (eg internet, power, rent, mortgages), for the duration of the lock-down".

For your education (and LoneStarGal) :

The 'value' of any free-exchange fiat currency is determined (and limited) by the available resources and the productive capacity of a nation.

Therefore the fiat-currency issuer (ie sovereign national government) can issue and spend its own currency - without taxing or borrowing from the private sector - in certain circumstances such as this pandemic, when private sector activity - and hence money creation in the form of wages - must be heavily curtailed to save lives.

Just plain common sense, though common sense is not very common after all....

 

uh huh

are you familiar with Venezuela? Leftists tend not to care about the value of the currency

 

I went through 37 pages and was unable to find any clear idea of what COVID's actual fatality rate is. I'm not an MD. If you're one please tell us what that actual fatality rate is and please do that anyway, since I'm assuming you wouldn't post something you didn't understand.

 

Yes I am: and I am also familiar with ideologues not being able to read and comprehend ideas:

The 'value' of any free-exchange fiat currency is determined (and limited) by the available resources and the productive capacity of a nation.

Therefore the fiat-currency issuer (ie sovereign national government) can issue and spend its own currency - without taxing or borrowing from the private sector - in certain circumstances such as this pandemic, when private sector activity - and hence money creation in the form of wages - must be heavily curtailed to save lives.

I have underlined the significant bit this time, to assist your comprehension....and to show the irrelevance of the comparison with Venezuela.

 

Venezuela is not the USA. We are not very, VERY, heavily dependent on one resource, (oil) whose price has suddenly tanked and is not expected to recover for some time.

What is expected to happen in the USA is much like what transpired in WWII. At that time we had been suffering under the worst worldwide economic depression that had ever existed for a decade. Yet somehow we found 300 billion in 1930s money to finance a victory in that war and then spent even more in the Marshall Plan to rebuild the continent we had just destroyed. The Depression did not reoccur. Explain that if fiat currency always leads to Venezuela scenarios.

 

Just got back from a search
North Dakota South Dakota compare coronavirus.


Nov. 17, 2020
Cases per 100,000



As best as I can tell, there isn't that much difference.
Both Dakotas are relatively high on the new cases list.
Policies of strict vs lenient don't seem to have an effect.
Got a chin diaper?


Moi

​

 

You are incorrect. The main factor in Covid death is an underlying medical condition. Some of us know how to maintain a strong immune system. I don't get the flu and have never had a flu shot.

Its amazing that people believe health comes from a pharm company.

 

...or that your risk of catching a virus increases significantly from walking your dog. LOL

It would seem they are simply testing the gullibility of the people of the world. About 50% are ripe for the fleecing.

 

So what you've escaped the aging process have you swami? Because that's the chief underlying health factor with COVID age!

And of course if you just consume vitamin tablets no-one will ever get cancer and therefore require treatments that can suppress the immune system (another risk factor). Or heart disease, obviously in your expert opinion there's no such thing as hereditary cardiomyopathy or familial hypercholesterolemia (also risk factors). And asthma (or other chronic lung diseases)? Their all myths to I suppose.

Sorry Doofus, you are clearly talking out of your a%#e. Try reading something other than comic books before you start blessing us all with your font of wisdom!

 

I doubt an exact death rate will ever be known, at least until after the epidemic is over and even then only in countries with advanced westernized health systems. (Which are better resourced and have accurate record keeping systems.)

To begin with its was a completely new virus and treatment regimes have improved as Doctors gained experience and determined what works. So on that basis it was higher than at the start than now and is still a moving target. Also it started in China so any stats relating to initial death tolls have to be treated with suspicion, partly because yes, Chinese authorities would not at first be able to identify COVID as a cause of death in many cases and also because later on the State probably has an interest in massaging the figures to make itself look good for domestic consumption. And as I noted when it is finally over countries with fewer resources e.g. Iran of Egypt are going to fave far higher per capita death rates than the West. Countries with older populations are also likely to be more at risk because age is the leading morbidity factor.

 

Sure. Here is the relevant pull quote from the results section.

And one from the discussion section.

We don’t have to be MD’s to understand the difference between IFR and CFR. There is a lot of information out there on the subject. Here’s a good overview.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ind-but-researchers-are-getting-closer-141426

It’s a few months old so my previous link is more current as it was updated to September. It should be noted, the IFR for different countries and even different states will vary. The US is probably towards the upper end of the spectrum with our obesity and other lifestyle health problems. Thus, the 0.65% CDC figure in the “Conversation” link above is high in my opinion, but we are certainly higher in the US than my original link 0.23% conclusion.

If you are interested in the actual infection fatality rate of influenza, I provided a bit of detail here showing around 90,000 deaths in the US occur annually from influenza by way of causing fatal cardiovascular events. These are not included in the influenza IFR of 0.1% you supplied. If all deaths were counted for influenza, the IFR would be at least 0.2-.3%. Not much different than Covid’s current IFR calculations. Here’s the most relevant post with links.

I discussed this undercounting of influenza deaths in detail in both of these threads.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/another-trump-tweet-breaks-the-rules.579409/

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...epublican-areas.579921/page-5#post-1072137735


Covid is a killer. So is the flu. There is no need to fudge data on either one but I see it done here daily by both political “sides”. My commentary on this subject is all based on the best existing science we have to date. As always, show me better data and I’ll be happy to reconsider my positions. :)

 

However, it remains clear the state government of Victoria in Australia WAS able to control and eliminate an explosive increase in covid cases (due to a failure in the quarantine system) , and is now able to re-open its economy without the steady drumbeat of deaths we are seeing in America.

And if the fatality count in the US reaches c. 300,000 before next March, covid will be the LEADING cause of death in the US.

 

You know they reset the counters to zero every year.

....and I heard that Australian story for two waves of the virus now.

 

The leading cause of death in the US is heart attack c.300,000 annually. Covid is on course to overtake it.

The state governments in Australia - regardless of political persuasion* - shut their state economy down whenever the virus numbers explode. Result: 907 covid deaths in Australia since March, cf c.20,000 heart disease deaths annually, the leading cause of death in Australia.


* both right and left are horrified by the numbers in the US.

 

'Strict' will only work if the relevant (affected) state border is 100% closed to all persons, except for essential supplies which will require quarantining of personnel; AND 100% lock-down of the (state) economy....which will require Fed financial support, of course.​

 

Day to day transmission of residents in those 2 states may be swamped by two months of nearly 500,000 transients coming up for their "festivities", involving an abundance of human close interactions for actions from heavy drinking and interactions for activities for fighting, f****ng, hugging and having environments that would rairly support 20 seconds of serious hand washing, ever. (Been there, done that!)

Few other states have that mixture of small local population and heavy interactions between temporary visitors.

I seriously doubt these two states are discernible in the warm tourist months.

Do a comparison in this issue in January and February and see how much transmission occurs without all the bikers and rowdies, who nearly never wear a mask.

 

The title of this thread is ironic. The 'freedom or death' mantra of the Right way well materialize in this pandemic as 'freedom AND death", as a result of refusal to adhere to a common set of rules including economic lock-down required to defeat covid-19.

 

I'll just leave the factual data here:




Anyway, deaths from heart attacks in the U.S. may be lower this year because people who had their final heart attack and tested positive for Covid were counted as a Covid death, not a heart disease death. Without the virus, they'd have been a 2020 heart disease death.

 

Excess deaths from all causes during the last 8 months exceeds the whole sum of all the 12 months deaths in your link from Suicide + nephritis + nephrotic syndrome + nephrosis + influenza +pneumonia + diabetes

 

We shut down medical services to "save room" for the flood of Covid patients who never came. People did die of very treatable causes due to lack of normal access to healthcare.