Freedom or Covid: You pick, North/South Dakota

Yes, I get vaccinated. And in the absence of vaccination I would take all reasonable prosecutions (masks/pubic distancing etc) to prevent the spread of the virus. Because by doing so I I protect both my fellow citizens and myself. And if I catch it anyway? Well I've done all I can to protect my community. What do you do?

 

So you admit the situation is a disaster? And Biden now has to take responsibility for dealing with it?

Well that begs the question: who is responsible for letting the disaster develop in the first place?

 

If you are vaccinated but don’t mask and social distance as well you have not “done all I can to protect my community “. Your statement demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of influenza and influenza vaccines.

 

And they don't even wear shirts much less masks

 

Not really, I'm well aware the flu vaccine is only partly effective based on what strain of the virus experts deem most likely to dominant in any particular year. Sometimes they get a close match which increases the effectiveness of that years vaccine, sometimes they don't, which reduces it. On average effectiveness varies from 40-60 % depending on how close their prediction is.

Point is I get vaccinated, and during bad flu seasons I do practice social distancing. But if I get flu I also tend to know it and self isolate. Masking? Now I would now perhaps consider it. But the big difference between flu and COVID is what you failed to mention.

If you get flu, symptoms generally emerge within 24-72 hours of infection and you remain infections for 5-7 days max from day 1. With COVID in many cases its 2 weeks or more from day 1. So on average you almost triple the likelihood of infecting someone else, especially given the high % of asymptomatic cases. Hence why masks are considered so important.

Also for reasons that aren't full understood COVID hits the elderly much harder than other age groups. Flu does this as well but even in the worst flu seasons while you see a spike in the number of aged patients in ICU's etc you don't see the current wave their getting from COVID.

Does that clarify the difference. You do your bit to help others in your community or you don't. Its a choice. So choose.

 

True.

False. There is a bit of unexplained heterogeneity in asymptomatic and sub clinical influenza infections, but it’s well established 25-50% of influenza infections are not recognized by the infected individual. And yes, those folks are contagious to varying degrees. Also, in symptomatic cases, individuals are contagious up to a day before any presentation of symptoms. So you are risking spreading influenza in exactly the same manner as you would pre or asymptomatic Covid. You just didn’t know about it until now. Furthermore, there is very substantial data showing the infection fatality rate of influenza is at most only half the IFR of Covid 19, not the six to ten times less claimed by “experts”. So now you know influenza is many times more deadly than you’ve been led to believe as well.

Now you know I didn’t mention the “big difference” because there is no big difference. You’ve only been led to believe that difference exists.

Half true. Correct on time to symptoms, incorrect on being able to infect others only after symptoms begin. Explained above.

Mostly false.
Nobody is infectious from day one. Pre symptomatic shedding of viable virus in quantity to be infectious rarely occurs over 2 days pre symptom in Covid. Remember influenza is contagious one day pre symptoms so that’s closer to double risk not triple.

Most cases of Covid are asymptomatic, mild or moderate. In these cases viable virons capable of being cultured are almost never found past nine days A very small percentage of cases are severe or in immune compromised individuals and these are the only cases where viable virus is shed longer than 9-10 days. Since these folks are in Covid wards at the hospital they aren’t putting the public at risk anyway. So, in short, Covid is infectious for about 11 days, influenza for 7-8. That’s not even double, let alone the triple effect you claim. There’s even some research using contact tracing that shows it’s very rare to have a person transmit C19 at any point past day 5 post symptom onset!

Partly true. Yes, age is a comorbitity of both viral infections.

Just because you didn’t hear about it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened with influenza.
https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-flu-demand-20180116-htmlstory.html
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/11/flu-levels-rise-texas-officials-advise-public-be-aware/

Does that clarify reality as opposed to the misinformation you’ve been fed? Better mask up for at least 9 months every year if you care about your community.

 

To clarify I know no-none is infectious from day one. The day (1) comment is a reference to the start of the infection then you count forward from that. 48-72 hours after infection you become infectious. As for the rest? medical sources I review state that in severe cases interactivity can extend out from 10 days to the 14 day period I quoted and can be longer. So while three times longer period I quoted is takes it to the maximum value for the infections period can still reach twice that of flu.

In terms of hospital bed situation? We see upsurges in hospital bed usage during flu season. We never see the problems you seem to have and neither does most of Europe -or at least rarely based on the reporting. So either we have;
- more hospital beds per head of population (it turns out we do BTW) The US is way down the list;
- or generally less severe flu seasons; or
- a lot less people with comorbidites that impact someones ability to cope with influenza;

or a combo of all of the above and/or some other unidentified factor at play. And two of those three options have nothing to do with the flu itself but rather US medical system.

As for the flu? that part of your post was interesting I knew there were a % of asymptomatic cases. I wasn't aware it was that high so I may well mask up in future seasons.

 

Yes, severe cases can exceed the 9-11 day infectious period. But that’s a small percentage and they aren’t infecting the public because they are in the hospital Covid ward.

https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel-operations-amid-brutal-flu-epidemic

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...u-triple-111-phoneline-overwhelmed-deepening/

But yes I’d guess the poor health of US citizens is a big factor. I don’t know about severity of flu seasons by country. The available beds thing is interesting. There’s a big difference in beds per capita by state here in the US. It’s certainly a factor as you point out. It’s interesting I saw the other day even Australia is short of flu vaccine this year. I guess demand is high.

What should really get your attention about influenza is how many people it actually kills. In the US it’s responsible for around 90,000 deaths per year not counted (or estimated) by the CDC. Influenza kills 2-3 times as many as most believe it does.

 

I find it hard to believe you would be be willing to wear a mask 6 months of the year every year of your life. Btw the Flu vaccine is hardly reliable.

 

I might depending on how bad the strain was or if Health Authorities recommended it. Normally they don't because we have high vaccination rates and enough hospital beds to cope with a seasonal influx. Occasional (rare) localized shortages not withstanding.

Also while we are highly urbanized we don't have the same % of our population dwelling in inner city apartments that the US does. That's a trend that's changing but up until now I suspect being more 'spread out' in suburbs etc helps (a little).