French genocide law: President Sarkozy orders new draft

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17196119

look like Sarkozy got the balls , the new genocide bill irrespective of Turkish pressure ...respect ,comments ?

Kemal said about Christians'' My weapons are the gallows'' and '' We uprooted them'', but AKP is the new Ottomans ...so i can not get it...

 

good stuff i wish Kurdistan Government KRG soon follows the same bill for Dersim genocide Turkey's Kurdistan.

 

will there be one for the genocide of the red indians by the Americans?

 

whats interesting here its a timing 1937 and 1938

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

any idea why the 1937 was that bloody?

 

cos a lot of rebellions took place in that era , not sure what motives though .

 

Could we please limit the genocidal guilt ot the modern era rather than the 17th,18th and 19th centuries?

Besides we Americans never denied our expulsion of the native peoples. Its enshrined it in our Capitol Building.

Most of us know full well we expelled the Native Peoples and colonized this land. Most of us also don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*).

Also it was quite two sided.

There are plenty of instances in American History where the natives were perfectly content to let a few settlers settle around them and then suddenly one day they woke up and thought there were too many white people and then went to war against treaties.

It wasn't all the white man's fault.

 

will there be one for the genocide of the Greeks , Romans, Punic people, Egyptians, etc by the Arabs ?

 

question was about year 1937

 

Im an Alevi ( belong to the same religious sect with those killed in that period ) and believe competent to answer cause graduated political science and international relations and have master degree.

First of all its better to separate 2 different periods 1937 isnt that bloody when compared to 1938. Its better to remember 1937 period with Seyit Rıza. He was a prominent figure in the region who Alevi's respected and at the same time feared too. Sounds strange but that guy was like a landlord, playing the role of the government in the district collecting taxes even deciding who will marry with who. Before the visit of Mustafa Kemal they burned a bridge state newly built, prevented government's construction of roads to the region and attacked soldiers. Reason is quite clear he wanted to sustain his power in there. For months government chased them in the end 58 people Seyyit Rıza his son and friends gave in. 11 people including Seyit Rıza and his son sentenced to death.

Even after their sentence to death not much changed in the region. As I said before, 1938 was much more bloody different sources claim between 10.000 to 40.000 death and 10.000 population transfer.

Apart from a few extremists, most of the Alevi's vote CHP which was in the office during that events ( actually there was no other political party during that time ) Leader of CHP today is Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu and he's from this district and so Alevi.

Now here is my view for these two events. What today foreigners call as genocide both Armenian and Dersim issues is just an internal conflict during the establishment of a new social structure. Neither Alevi's in Turkey nor Armenians of Turkey ( just a tiny number of extremists as I mentioned before ) never blame Turkey for their loses. Talat Paşa of Ottoman Empire ( equal to today's prime minister ) lots of times warned Armenian intellectuals and members of parliment. Yes, although not much informed by Armenians living outside of Turkey Armenians played prominent role in the Ottoman administration there were 7 ministers from Armenian ethnicity. Starting from 1890 till 1915 whenever Armenians revolt and murdered Turks and Kurds in Anatolia with the support of France and Russia always foreign states keeped Ottoman empire from taking serious measures. Armenians mistake-misfortune was doing the same massacres while empire was already in war with the states which could stop it as in peace time and Bolshevik revolution cut their aid from Russia too.

Talat pasa one day comes together with Armenian leaders and asks ' what did you trust ? You are less in Anatolia and you know that '. He says ' we're the victim of imperialists powers, they provoked us, we thought things will be just like in the Greeks independence. ' Apart from relocation when new Turkish Republic established, Armenians were still leaving Turkey when they were told they dont have to, new republic will protect them. Their leaders said ' we cant live side by side any more we did terrible things to Turks ' Very explanatory for the new Armenian state's first prime minister's apology from the Turkish nation.


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so your a Kurd like the BDP leader Damirtas !!!

 

I dont know how you came to this conclusion because there are Turk Alevis and Kurd Alevis which I cant understand since there isnt any Kurd Alevi religious man ( Dede ) I know personally.

There are Turks who claim ' you're Turk ' whoever they see, you remind me these guys. If I say no Im not Kurd then you will say ' you're an assimilated Kurd ' I believe.

 

maybe you belong to a clan which took a part of Armenian genocide?

 

Yes I belong to the nation which protect their people and land from a pusher minority who decided to declare their independence from an empire which never interfered their honour, religion and language in the last 1000 years ( if otherwise would be true all would be Turkish speaking Muslims just like in British or French colonies ) while men of my nation giving an exam of life or death in 11 fronts of first world war.

 

as a human you are dead . but i will try . what if one day they(new-ottomans) say that you are a pusher minority, and then destroy (totally) you as a race?

 

I dont make assumptions for future, it isnt scientific. From time to time this happened in the past in maraş, çorum and in sivas massacres my religious sect attacked and lost lots of people. There are courts to demand justice if you cant protect yourself. I advice my Armenian friends all the time who complain for Turkey's denial of so called genocide to go to international courts. Turkey is member of European Court of Justice.

Turkey offered Armenia to bring their historians and documents supporting the so called ethnic cleaning but its easier to cheat a few members of parliament who are after a few votes than a judge in international court. Isnt it the basic right in western culture self defence ?

 

1) there are still 15 to 20 million alavi around so your lost are nothing compare Armenians, Assyrians , P- Greeks
2) what Turkey can offer to Armenia is only financial or territorial compilation, save your "documents " for yourself, and sites like Armenian lies, tales etc. all facts about A- genocide are well known...
3) how it feels to live under sunni political party dictatorship ? i was much better under kemlist junta, right?

 

Nobody knows the number of Armenian loses, what we know today is the number of the people relocated which is 942.000.

When its the life of human being numbers dont matter if its against someone just because of his race or ethnic background its what UN defined. Turkey punished those in the east who took place in massacres and the intellectuals who feed and fired them with such natioanlist view. 24th of April is the date of the arrest warrant of these people. Dont even expect from Turkey to give neither a stone nor a penny to any Armenian that would be rejection of its own sovereignity.

Sunni political dictatorship vauv nice political term but where is that ? We vote 3 times and AKP won each time last time their votes dropped I never vote them but I have to confess that they tripled the economy when compared to former period. I dont even want to say anything about your views for kemalism all enemies of Kemal which he fought from Greek generals to British kings came to palace and declared his admire. I just advice you to read more and dont make assumptions about politics which you arent well informed.

 

i know it my friend from the biggest minority to point 0, and this what we call genocide , your "relocation" was a war crime and if dont know it you are an idiot or a criminal (according French bill)

watch this http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2012/01/201219114241618276.html , check out my sources !!! dont even try to compare it with your crappy "youtube" Turkish amateur videos

 

ultra kemslism has very little to do with uncle kemal . Junta simply used his name in the propaganda propose , much like han folk do with great panda today

 

this is the first time i hear this , since Alevis are Zazaki speaking people a kurdish dialect who are known as an aryan nation , since when turks were aryans lol .

i only thought it but you said it .

 

The group you talk about are Zaza in Turkish, they live in Tunceli they feel closer to Kurds for example Yılmaz Güney was one of them. But most of the Alevis are Turkmen, if need be more than 90% are Turk.

You cant find any Alevi worship began without Ataturk's photos and Turkish flags decorating the room in any Cem house.

 

defensive mechanism nothing else, but uncle kemal can not help them any more, those Ataturk's photos are out of political fashion . dont you see how you (Alevi guys) are politically marginalized ?

 

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thanks for this great article litwin , as usual .

 

I thank too most of its true, but to tell the truth I dont like copy paste messages.

All groups in Turkey have democratic demands and they all have complaints.

Lets think about Prime Minister and even President of Turkey wife of both have hijap, they're in power of the country for the last 10 years but a woman cant get into parliament with hijap or girls cant get into universities with it. Mr Erdoğan sent her daughter outside of country for uni. education.

I dont expect state power to be in good relation with Alevis neither in AKP rule nor CHP, sunnis had always been in control of Turkey in the history. The reason for Alevis to support new republic and Fatherturk comes from the freedoms of democracy came after the end of empire rule.

Alevis could only live in villages never practice their beliefs, massacres were common during empire period.

Now everyone can safely carry signs of Alevis society on their neck and practice their belief in cities. Thanks to Fatherturk and democracy. Alevis know it and thats why they love him, there is always a statue in the entrance of Cemevis and alevi dedes kiss the shoes of the statue.

By the way the reason for Turkey's shortcoming on personal freedoms is because of the role it played during the cold war and the fragile situation of being the only country which has 99% muslim population and a secular democracy at the same time.