Gay and Lesbian rights ,well Ok define what they are ?

Militant? No. Just because I won't submit to your opinions, that doesn't make me militant.

Not the issue. The issue is your refusal to acknowledge even the existence of orientation, much less the role it plays as a component of identity, and how this affects people when this aspect of their identity is targeted with prejudice and bigotry.

Instead, you insist on defining it as "how one has sex" in order to minimize and ignore the attending issues. You don't need to repeat your position on the matter for me. I'm well aware of your position and your intransigence.

I have zero influence over what letters makeup the label. I had no role in its adoption whatsoever. I am inclined to agree that its usefulness in educating the rest of the population is limited at best. It is, however, a lot easier than writing out gay/lesbian/bisexual/trans-identified/intersex/etc. whenever one wishes to refer to those groups collectively.

And frankly, it's not my job to educate the public. People can either choose to get a clue, or not. If they choose not to, then trying to discuss the issues will be close to impossible, since the conversation will instead get bogged down in ridiculousness like debating stupid crap, like people saying 'gay' just denotes how a person has sex, or other issues of definition.

...because most people just assume everyone is straight. Which gets extremely tiresome for those of us who aren't. And I disagree with this notion that "nobody cares". It's obvious to me that a great many people do, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. People wouldn't be throwing full beer cans at me or calling me insulting names or more to the point - advocating against my interests - if they weren't thinking about it.

You aren't fooling anyone. There is nothing innocent in the questions you ask. More to the point, if you expect to have a civil discussion of the issues, it is indeed your job to educate yourself on them instead of expecting us to bring you up to speed.

Indeed, I am not. I'm just a private citizen defending myself against the willful ignorance of people waging a culture war against me and other GSMs.

If you don't want to become a casualty (figuratively speaking), then I recommend staying off the battlefield.

 

my comments are above and I'd also ask you to take it down a notch or 2 and share the story about the beer can being tossed. When did that happen, was it within the past few years? Was it done because you were gay and no other reason? Or, was it a bar fight in general?

I have never seen such an occurence in any lounge I've frequented but that does not mean it doesn't happen.

 

And still we have no definitions coming oh well you never know!

 

How about, the same rights as you (don't bother with the semantics, you know exactly what that means).

 

Hey bisexuals suffer discrimination from a very dubious and closed group called the LGTIQAPC,please note the B has withdrawn support!

And as far as "gay and lesbians "not having the same rights ,are they stoped by someone from forming their own political party and voting,the Gay and Lesbian Rights Party,instead of the pressuring of government with Radical middle class political lobbying,shows how stupid australian politicans are they actually accept the LGBTIQAPC as being a legitimate voice for the homosexual community!


Which it definitely is NOT!

Its the voice of Radical right wing people who call themselves Lesbian feminists.

How insanely rediculous is the Dyke brand of feminism ,well lets say Hetrosexual feminists would object to their attempt to get recognition that 'Lesbians have a higher rate of breast cancer then the general female population."So thry should get more funding from the government and have $100 000 of dollars in research grants into this ridiculous proposition.

Because when one looks at the ACTUAL ,research and delves into the fine print ,it is based on the Scientific Fact ,THAT ,women who do not bare children have the higher incidence ,not Lesbian women but Women who don't have babies for whatever reason .

And as being Lesbian dosen't stop one from having children ,then well they are deliberately lying for government money!Its called the method of the LGBTIQAPC Gravy train for Middle class radical liberal stupids.

And of course the usual 'We are Gay and Lesbian ",'We are special people "CRAP!

 

You need to stop telling me what to do.

I'm not buying what you're selling. If it truly didn't matter to you, you would not be on an internet forum baiting gay people incessantly with statements minimizing what it means to be gay by characterizing it as just sex.

You're wrong, and I've explained to you why you're wrong, and you simply don't want to hear it. It is the things I have experienced because of prejudice toward my orientation that have made us different from each other. It's like you have your fingers permanently cemented in your ears, singing "la la la la la" so you won't have to confront the truth. Instead, you'll spout every irrelevant similarity between us you can think up - all to avoid having to acknowledge that we are different in one exceedingly important way - your heterosexual privilege.

As usual, you are stubbornly missing the point. It shouldn't be important, yet there are a significant number of people who have declared and are waging a "culture war" against me, as a member of the set of people who are gay, based on identity politics. Apparently you would have me roll over and play dead for them.

I don't dislike you because your hetero. I dislike you because you troll every thread that discusses a gay-related issue, forcing us to go off topic to respond to your "it's just sex" crap. You aren't interested in the topics at all - only in being an annoyance to those of us who are.

...says the guy who earlier enclosed "education" in sneer quotes. People don't wish to be educated. They'd rather pretend we don't exist because having to confront the reality that we do makes them uncomfortable. I will not pretend to be invisible for the comfort of anyone. Nevermind that the context was that of you expecting us to educate you, when you are the one who entered the discussion unprepared. We're not going to carry you. You are responsible for yourself, and that includes taking the responsibility of educating yourself so that others aren't burdened with having to do it for you.

It doesn't take a mind-reader to see what you're up to.

I am not the least bit interested in complying. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

When it happened is immaterial, the passage of time has done next to nothing to curb such behavior. People who hate aren't going to stop treating the people they hate like target practice. It is but one incident of many in a lifetime of experience with such crap. The only difference between now vs. then is that I've been forcibly taught to avoid putting myself in situations where I'm an easy target for someone looking to play a game of "smear the queer". I have come to dislike being in public and around strangers immensely, and am always mindful of having an escape route. So I find it hilarious (not!) that you think we are no different from each other. One incident would be shocking enough, but when the number becomes too many to count and always associated with perceptions about one's orientation, it's a recognizable pattern of abuse - and of the sort that has a lasting effect on a person.

As to the details of this particular instance: It wasn't a bar fight. I had merely stepped outside the bar to get some fresh air, when a convertible drove by and one of the passengers threw a full can of beer at me while yelling "(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)"! Fortunately his aim was off by a few inches, but it came close enough to my head that I "felt the breeze". And yes, it was because the perpetrator assumed I was gay because it was a gay bar. I did not know them personally, had not interacted with them. I was not dressed provocatively, nor behaving in a way meant to garner attention. I just happened to be the anonymous (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) in the wrong place at the wrong time that some bigot decided to use for target practice.

The usual response of "I've never witnessed such a thing", said for no other purpose than to attempt casting doubt. Following it up with "that doesn't mean it didn't happen" might as well have a nudge, nudge, wink, wink attached to it for all the sincerity it contains.

 

I do believe the person with the blinders on and fingers inserted into his ears is..........you

So you are gay..........big whoop. i'm hetero.....big whoop

when I was overweight as a youth I was taunted for it and even got into fights. They never expected the fat kid to fight back and kick their butt. But, I was able to do something about the weight and the taunts stopped but the driving reason was no different than the taunts you cite........ignorance.

No legislation is going to cure ignorance.

If you say that a beer can was tossed at you xxx years ago then nobody can deny your claim which I did not. For a person to state that they do not see the behavior does not mean it doesn't exist, yet you get yourself in a rage........why? You call my character into question for no reason other than again, your militant stance that it's all bad and we're all out to get you. What a miserable existence you must have thinking the bogey man is around every corner.

Why does it matter to you so much that not just me, but many people view you as absolutely no different with the exception of how you have sex; which is nobody's business but yours. Does equality scare you? Without an enemy, real or contrived does your purpose fade away???

If you came to me looking to fill one of my open professional positions, and had the credentials, and can help my business make money do you think I'd let you get away? Do you think what you do in the privacy of your bedroom has any bearing on if you could help me make money?

But, if a co-worker of yours came to me and said they could not work with you because you are gay I'd show them the door.

If however you did not have the credentials, or oversold yourself and could not perform, and help my business grow, you'd be gone but if you tried to sue me claiming it is because you are gay; I'd fight you in court all the way because what you do in your bedroom has absolutely no bearing in business or life.

So, I apologize if I do not view you as being above me, or worthy of special treatment. I apologize that despite your rants and tirades that I will only see you as a man just like me. I have been absolutely consistent about that in this section and you are one of the few who get outraged because I don't view you as being special. Doesn't it stink when you find out you're just a schlub like the rest of us out here?

 

On that, we agree.

I stand by my characterization of it. If you accepted as fact that it happened, there would be no need to pose questions about when did it happen, was it a bar fight, etc. What your questions communicate is that you don't believe it, and that you're probing for a hole you can exploit to dismiss the entire incident.

I call your character into question because I find it questionable for the reasons cited.

I wouldn't say my existence is miserable. or that I imagine the bogeyman around every corner. I am, however, cognizant of the fact that I'm a member of a demographic that is hated by a significant number of people. Because of that, I don't have the privilege of being able to live my life without the anxiety that attends such a situation. So the less I have to be around other people and deal with their potential prejudices or hate, the better.

What matters is the people who don't view me as their equal and act accordingly. I have no way to know which person is a real threat versus those who pose none. You act like they don't exist, like I have no actual enemy, but I've encountered enough of them to know that they do, and in significant numbers.

You pretend to yourself that we are equals in society, but we are not. Your heterosexual privilege blinds you to the obstacles I face. They aren't a part of your experience, and rather than give credence to what I tell you about my experience as a gay man, you choose instead to deny, deny, deny. Telling me I'm equal when it's obvious to me that I'm not is no comfort. It's rather infuriating in fact.

At no time have I suggested that I'm above you or that I deserve special treatment.

Like I said - deny, deny, deny. My status in society because of my orientation is what differentiates us. <- That is what you are refusing to see.

What stinks is being treated like (*)(*)(*)(*) and then having people like you deny that's happening, and not just as some aberration, but as a systemic problem.

You act like your alleged viewing me as no different is supposed to just make everything all better for me. It doesn't. A person who targets me as their enemy in a "culture war" is directly responsible for creating a climate where it is impossible for me to live as your equal. A person who willfully turns a blind eye to the fact that I'm being made a target by culture warriors and how that obstructs my ability to be equal is complicit in that war through their silence or active denial.

You are an active denialist. You aren't merely voicing an opinion that my orientation shouldn't matter. You're trying to persuade others who might aid me in my defense from the culture warriors that there is no war, nothing to see here, "go back to your knitting".

 

status in society---- what in the blue moon is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to tell me that as another man your status is different than mine. If you have more money then maybe you belong to country clubs or something but so what. If you are trying to make claim that being gay makes you different than me and a different status then it is you who who is doing it to himself.

alleged....alleged............nice code word sir and again it shows your arrogance and militant viewpoint that all heteros or those who don't agree 100% with you are the enemy. Again and I repeat, what a miserable life you must have made for yourself

Denialist- why don't you take a step back and think, that is spelled t h i n k.

What should you have gleened from my posts

I do not view what one does in the bedroom has any reflection whatsoever as to the type of person they are. It does not qualify or disqualify them from jobs or make one a decent or terrible person. If you steal from someone you are not a gay thief, you're a thief and not a decent person.

I view as ignorant anyone who thinks it's their business what any of us do in the bedroom and feels they have the right to assault us or worse, because of it.

live and let live as long as you (collective you as in all of us) are not harming me and i'm not harming you

I suggest that you look for an enemy elsewhere because there isn't one here. I just don't buy into all of your beliefs................so what.

The world is a wonderful and wonderous place as are the people on it. It seems that you just can't let go and move forward. I honestly wish you well but it seems that you have personal demons which need exorcising. Maybe those demons are justified but hatred can do you no good. It will eat you up.

 

Legal status. A couple can attain the legal status of married, along with the benefits and accommodations that allow them to function as a single unit under the law -- if they're a mixed sex couple. A same sex couple is denied that legal status, and the associated accommodations to live as one.​

 

Yes. I expect you'll continue denying that, though.

Still not getting it, I see. I'm not surprised.

I have never said "all heteros" and never will - because that isn't my perception of the situation. It's nothing more than your invention in an attempt to claim victimhood for yourself.

I guess it's my fault that I've been assaulted on several occasions by bigots looking for a queer to use as target practice.

I see that I'm apparently not allowed to disagree with you, without you claiming that I've labeled you the enemy.

Condescending and insulting. :reaches for ignore button:

When you stop posting in every thread discussing gay issues with the same "it's just sex" talking point and actually discuss the topics instead of using this to derail the threads, I'll consider believing you. Until then, saying it doesn't make you credible.

Oh, and I am putting you on ignore again. You stepped over the line with the t h i n k remark. It simply served to expose that you do consider yourself superior and think I deserve talking down to. Rather than wind up saying something I definitely shouldn't, I'll just ignore your existence going forward.

 

good for you. And you talk about arrogance. Someone does not see your view 100% and off the handle you fly

good day sir because honestly, you waste my time. I really do hope you get your life in order

 

Now if you and yours stopped with the ridiculous ,anti-scientific Gay crap,then others may join youi against the biggotted extremely small minority of humans ,But with the deliberate confusion of "Gay and Lesbian' stupidity gobbly goog ,well guess what no clarity no support.

See,thats the problem with fracturing,the Homosexual Community along ,LGBTIQAPC lines ,CONFUSION as to what is legitimate democratic aspiration and rights ,as distinct from lesbian feminist Radical crap.sorry ,Homosexual female Dyke crap.

Oh sorry ,Dykes don't like being called females do they thats why they call themselves DYKES ,isn't IT?

Is their a difference concerning the Poofs as distinct from Gays as distinct from homosexuals ,see thats the problem ,the Biggots are united ,usually by Churches ,whereas the Homosexual community wouldn't know if its Arthur or Martha.

And guess what the biggots are preparing as you try to define what we already know ,get used to the term Homosexual ,your existance may depend on it before long .

Homosexuals united against biggotry can never be obliterated .hey show a unified front or perish ,stupids.because your enemies are united .

now ,lets return to the discussion about ,Poof ,Gay,Lesbian ,Dyke,Bi,MSM,Intersexual,Transexual,ANYTHING but Scienifically and Historically correct definitions of Sexual Orientation and still the best ,clearest and most concise and SERIOUSLY Acceptable by everyone easily and clearly wait for it........HOMOSEXUAL UNITED COMMUNITY!

see ,I am giving you all Sexual Identity thunkers a clear concise WARNING that the path of ,Gay,lesbian ,Transexual,Intersexual,Asexual,Pansexual......see if those that wish to defend you and support you don't PLAINLY and distinctly understand what you want as a HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY ,well don't whine to us when we can't tell if it is just another drunken yob throwing a beer can at someone ,not anything out of the odinary for drunken Yobs.

Hey he may have hated Gays for slandering his Homosexual friends ,who knows .?did you talk to him ???

Hey ,is Dyke an acceptable term ???=Man hating lesbian.And as Dykes do not identify as lesbian or Homosexual ,Can they now be in the LGBTIQAPC ,so its the DLGBTIQAPC ,come on its fair and we wouldn't like the Dykes to be left out of the Anti-Hetrosexual Community now would we.

 

Well said ,not one biggoted tone within your contribution ,see ,my "Gay and lesbian"whatevers ,to be a thinking human outside YOUR ,sexual identity politics means we identify as equals ,not a special group of special rights for happy people homosexual or otherwise .

On a rating of 1 to 100 on the critical political questions confronting society today ,hey to the back of a very long line some of us are fighting Wars and suffering Class oppression ,seeing their living standards smashed on the alter of profit.

On that scale of 1 being of little concern and 100 immediate life and death questions ,well "Gay and lesbian 'Religious Marriage Rites Equality is minus 1000.

hey,we socialist promise that after the revoultion we will put the ,right to defend the institution of the churches with marriage Rites for Gays and lesbian religious nutters.very low on the priority list.

see luckily some in the Human community do not buy into ,post-modernist political constructionist Twaddle of the LGBTIQAPC!

gay,lesbian,dyke,poof,Trany,Bi,straight,are all definitions without a shread of Political content ,Period.

In the extremely small area of democratic rights of a minority population,called the Homosexual community we have a POLITICALLY legitimate although limited ,frame work.

oh,and to add ,Their is nothing democratic about marriage equality ,its like slaves demanding equality of slavery from the slave owners.

 

Learn English; stop trying to make your own language.

 

hey ignorant nonsense like "Gay" as a word to describe any form of Human sexuality ,and you wonder why we concider you simple minded?

And sorry i do not see the 'H" for hetrosexual in the LGBTIQAPC,And this dubious united nations set up ,start surfing and prove me wrong ,UN ,set up political mishmash of confusion of which the United nations is famous for,WMD comes to mind!

Is nothing more or less then a post-modernist Identity politics non-evidence based fraud!

And a dangerous one at that!
B
ut then again what would one expect when sociology tries to get political science recognition.See,we Scientist don't mix up different arms of science ,like applying the Scientific Laws of physics with economics.Science doesn't work like that its not some free for all ,of interchangable scientific principles or something .

BTW,giving Capitialist Sociology a scientific determination is of course very generous of me!

that also applies to Capitialist economics of course ,demonstration of the Bankrupt Ecclectic method of thinking .

Don't worry ,Gay thinker, we do not expect great scientific insights from you as you have already been brainwashed by the Anti-science of the LGBTIQAPC.Its never to late to come back to the homosexual,bisexual ,hetrosexual united Human community if you want ,but you have to put your incorrect and biggoted Anti-hetrosexual veiws aside ,to see the truth .

Being,that all sexuality and orientations can be completely described by the Homosexual,bisexual ,hetrosexual scientifically based definitions ,and any other definitions of human sexuality or orientation are ignorant phillistine ,and totally useless for anything,invalid nonsense.

Do you think that LGBTIQAPC is valid ?

And ,BTW,sexual identification dosent mean anything ,as you are BORN PREdisposed to a sexuality no matter what you may want to Identify individually.Or the entire history of human evolution is meaningless?

Hey and the Scientific proof of that is something called TRANSEXUALITY!

Funny how all transexuals are either ,homosexual ,Bisexual and MOSTLY hetrosexual .Funny as a distinct sexuality Transexual cannot exist.BY DEFINITION!

so try to stop using hatefull anti-hetrosexual speech that ,Gay and lesbian stuff is just the otherside of the biggotry coin.

 

Again ,english meaning of Gay=Happy not Homosexual,see its derived from the french "gaiety"which had no conatation to Homosexual,sorry are the english words to big for you to under-stand ,is that why you need simple slang terms to commun,sorry,tell your mess-age in 1 syll-able words like GAY,ok I underst,sorry,I know now that your vocabul,sorry word list in your head is limit,sorry,tiny.

I will cut Homosexual down to Homo,or poof,or Gay,or (*)(*)(*),If you want but just for you!

hey ,if you have a patholog,sorry a mental process,sorry mental way of not being able to get what is the real mean-ing of words its not your fault.

I underst,sorry I can take that into ac-count if you need it ,in order to think pro-per-ly!

not mean-ing to be rude ,but it would have been help-full if you told us about your learn-ing probs.

 

They joined the anti=hetrosexual,bisexual ,Homosexual alliance in 2010!

mind you they never had a democratic process ,like voting on their admissions ,and Intersex is just a redefinition of a medical condition concerning genital abnormality ,nothing to do with human sexuality or orientation in any way .As ALL,"Intersexed' humans are defined as homosexual,Bisexual,hetrosexual,in terms of real human sexuality.

And please be accurate ,its not "Q" as in Questioning of ones Homosexual,bisexual,hetrosexual orientation,its also Queer sexual orientation ,yep ,these gay and lesbians are that ignorant of human sexuality.AND WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS!

Yep,no kidding its "Q" for Questioning\Queer.I would add "Q" for Political Quackery!


please note that none of the Gay and lesbian crew will deny this because they are embarrassed by it ,and as such will ignore it.

 

If we could have the Aims of the 'Gay and lesbian" community defined again please ,we a knowing of the 'Gay and lesbian"marriage Insanity ,what else please ???


Anyone ?????

Or is "Gay and Lesbian equal rights" to religious rites ,the totality ?????

 

I'm pretty sure if you just substituted the words "gay" & "Lesbian" for "homosexual, that will clarify the matters for you.

In the mean time, you might like to go through this list of ambiguous words and suggest new or distinguished words for us to use for each of their meanings:

http://muse.dillfrog.com/ambiguous_words.php

 

Yep now you have it, there is only a cultural war of your and the LGBTIQAPC's creation.The rest of humanity hasn't noticed so please take up knitting as it is good for anxiety i hear!

So the lesson here is that personal experiences mean nothing really is that what you think ???

Its only your position used against me isn't it ,so try and be more thoughtfull adn accepting of legitimate criticism of the LGBTIQ debacle and trap for new players ,note i am nearly 50 years old ,and you are?

 

It seems that some human beings an obsession with creating/applying 'labels'.

As long as a person is doing no harm to others... why not simply accept them as being 'different'?

 

Gay describes an emotional state ,homosexual describes a Human community ,what more needs to be said ,one is the emotion and the other the human being.

I will start a Homosexual rights list .

1. the right not to be labeled ,gay <lesbian ,poof ,Fagg ,bum chum,or any other derogatory term.

2.the right for homosexuality to be seen as normal human behaviour.

3. the right to be just left alone to do whatever things everyone else does ,have a private life.

4. the right to not be bulldozed into oppresive religious based institutions such as marriage ,abolition of Marriage is a common democratic right.

5. The right to have a scientific protection that is unquestionable in its normalness.Homosexual ,bisexual ,hetrosexual scientifc equality .

6. the right not to have university middle class wankers think they speak for everyone.

 

Whatever. Please stop with the semantic game-playing and discuss what people are really dealing with.

 

I could be, but I'm not. Nonetheless, you're welcome to join the ranks of the active denialists if it suits you.

Your suggestion that I should medicate myself to solve an external problem outside my control is noted and dismissed. Taking pills won't keep me safe.

Gay is a synonym for same-sex orientation. Whether or not you like that usage is immaterial. You don't get to control which words people choose to use to describe it. Pretending that it's somehow different from "homosexual" is an artificial division of your own creation which as nothing to do with reality. Just because someone describes themselves as "gay" doesn't mean they're part of some politically active group in NSW that you choose to rail against incessantly. You're manufacturing a barrier to useful discussion of the issues by pretending otherwise. It leads me to suspect that you are a troll and not who you represent yourself to be.

No one I've ever known would proudly call themselves 'homosexual', since it's a term from bygone days when same-sex orientation was classified as a mental illness - which is why social conservatives insist on using it - they insist that it should still be classified as a mental illness. Being a "proud, open, homosexual" won't spare you from their plotting.

Your 'anecdotal' experience. My experience (likewise anecdotal) is that both those seeking attention and those trying to avoid it can become targets. You can run (stay closeted), but you can't hide.

Talk to a social conservative sometime from the USA. I predict you'll find out that they view same-sex behavior to be a "lifestyle choice" by any name. They don't make a distinction between "gay" and "homosexual" beyond preferring the latter term because it fits their view that homosexuality is a mental illness.

You're certainly free to regard it as such.

There was no discussion. It was a drive-by assault.

You're free to disbelieve me. I don't much care either way, because I know the truth of the matter.

On the contrary: While social conservatives didn't invent the term "culture war", they have been using it for at least 20 years as part of a political strategy that targets many groups, including "homosexuals".

Whatever. I can see you are merely attacking me because I've expressed my disagreement with your BS. Maybe try doing some research. You can start with Pat Buchanan's run for the presidency and his speech that kicked off the use of the term "culture war" by the social conservatives in the USA. Or maybe try reading some of the blogs that cater to socially conservative views.

You are not a spokesman for the rest of humanity, though I'm not surprised to see that you would think you are.

I would not say they mean nothing. I would say they are unverifiable and can't be used to make the kind of broad arguments about "gay" that you've attempted. I, on the other hand, have simply been relating my own experiences with assaults and discrimination wherein I was targeted based on my orientation - as evidenced by the perpetrators own statements. None of which I can prove, so you if you really think i'm not credible, you're free to dismiss them.

I'm 49 years old.

The trouble here is that you've tried to argue that your criticisms of the LGBTIQ are scalable to everyone who uses the terms "gay" or "lesbian" or the LGBTetc. abbreviation. I find that those claims run contrary to my experience in these matters.

When it comes to claims made in broad terms, it takes no more than a single contradictory example to negate the universality of the claim. Your assertions that "gay" is only used by people of a certain "lifestyle" is such a claim - one you base on your anecdotal experience. Sure, you can legitimately argue that my anecdotal experience similarly doesn't support the making of broad claims. The fact that they run contrary to yours suffices to persuade me that your claims are false, though. Which of us other people choose to believe is their choice.

You have attempted to attack me personally in order to discredit me. That says more about your character than it does mine.

It basically comes to down to which of us is more credible. Clearly you think it's you, but I don't. Others must decide for themselves.