Gay Teen Suicide: A Range of Causes

No, it isn't possible. The normal of gay suiciding is:

- Not acceptance of his family
- Bullying in school

And you always ignore that. That is the reality.

 

The almighty agenda is yours, not theirs.

Professing to care makes you look silly and disingenuous.

Lives may depend upon the honest evaluation of the OP scenario? You read like melodrama. Drama-rama. Like you care about anything other than being derogatory about homosexuality.

You wish to find all the causes for gay teen suicide? Let me guess why. So you can use it to push your "almighty agenda", the agenda you claim of others.

Being one's self is NOT an agenda. Trying to discredit / change others IS an agenda, and a pretty nasty one.

 

Johnny C- I know this is a gay sub forum but people in glass houses should not toss stones

Ignorance- I suggest that you get a grip.

Being gay has jack squat to do with suicidal tendencies. Neither people in my life were gay.

To try and use how one has sex as a way to measure suicidal tenediencies is assinine. The more folks like you try and coddle gay teens the more they will feel that they are special needing to be treated more sensitively vs being like everyone else. I hope that if you have children that you teach them to suck it up to survive vs blaming everything else

 

It would be good to think that people care about gay teen suicide... and that there is NO agenda attached to their caring.

Terrible things happen to kids, girls, boys, terrible things done to them by adults, from men or women, but possibly probably more from men. Being sexually abused as a child DOES NOT "epidemically" lead to gayness or suicide. It probably leads to a variety of very many things... very many sad things... but to single out such an example as in the OP I think is disingenuous. And also the fact I think there is an agenda behind the "professing" to care.

It would be good to care about people, about kids that have been greviously hurt, abused. But NOT for the purpose of "using" these kids to push an agenda. Not for the purpose of having an ulterior motive for raising the issue in the OP.

That we care. That is what is required. But to profess to care for the purpose of wanting to use the OP to malign homosexuality is wrong. And NOT caring.

Caring is a quality that ought to be unconditional. But caring about these kids with the agenda / purpose of caring about these kids to want to berate / malign homosexuality is disingenuous. It is also an agenda. It is also NOT CARING.

 

You folks are ignoring what has been found about mammalian sexuality. It can be trained if the animal is accessed at puberty. Does anyone here understand what classical conditioning is? It's when you pair an object or other chosen stimuli with a reward, such as orgasm.

We are mammals. Do the math.

If boy is repeatedly molested by a man and associates orgasm with "male", it doesn't take rocket science to figure out what orientation that boy will be when older. Many people black out memories of molestation. Many gay men were molested as kids. And how do we know this? Because clinical psychiatrists tell us so:

The correlation of their findings and that of people who deal with sexually abused children cannot be ignored, unless you have an agenda to do so..

And if a person knows he has been molested and feels a COMPULSIVE ATTRACTION [not a natural one, one that is in conflict with his inner being] to the same gender that he wants to address and be rid of HIMSELF, FOR HIS OWN REASONS, that person may not be autonomous with the help of a therapist.

The gay lobby that pressures organizations like the APA has forced that person to "love the results of the abuse that was done to you. You had no control over your life then, and we'll make sure you have no control over your life now." It is akin to a woman being raped and forced to bear her rapist's child [that looks just like him], and love it, nurture it and be daily reminded of the assault; lest she be called "a bad mother".

That type of psychological hog-tying is nothing short of pure mental torture.

 

So you are saying that gays ARE bent and unnatural, but its somebody else's fault?
Society 2011, there is a EXCUSE for anything and everything. No one is responsible for what they do.

 

Now I wonder, will the "majority" here argue that humans don't experience learned compulsive behaviors? Will that be the next target to be militantly removed from the DSM? Because last time I checked, they do experience learned compulsive behaviors.

Wait, let me guess... Sexually learned compulsive behaviors will be the exception right?..lol.. Just like how animal behavioralists have found that mammals across all species can be trained to be sexually oriented in any weird way they want. Human mammals are the exception! Naturally!...lol..

What is happening here is a segregation on behalf of the professional community. We have each branch of applicable science being effectively sequestered from sharing their knowledge with another, lest they come to unsavory conclusions..

1. Animal behavioralists know, for a fact, and take to the bank every day in the field of agriculture, putting meat on your table from, that mammals across species can be trained at or just before puberty to sexually orient towards any chosed stimuli they want. Just like Pavlov's dog at the sound of the bell.

2. Human behavioralists know that compulsive behaviors exist and they become pathological when they cannot be controlled by the person who wants to control them.

3. Law enforcement specialists trained in spotting signs of child molestation know that one of the paramount signs in boys particularly is sexual aggressiveness, drug abuse, acting out and generational pedophlia, and relating to the world only in sexual terms. [LGBTQ are identities formed around sexual behaviors, just a reminder. In fact, these people want sexual behaviors to be treated as "a race"..that's how far it's gone.]

4. Psychiatrists have identified that major depression, history of sexual abuse as a child, serial promiscuity, drug abuse and violence are intertwined in the gay male population..as an "epidemic".

5. Child development specialists know of the malleability of the mind of a child as he grows. How his personality is formed from without by environmental pressures.

6. Gay's themselves know #5 and even have words to identify a child who grows up under the influence of his environment. Words such as "tampered with" "turned out" and so forth indicate this knowledge implicitly.


So we are supposed to not focus holistically on these various disciplines. Each is cornered and separated from the herd and debated separately. This is the only way the Agenda can win these mini-debates. The preponderance of evidence is too overwhelming otherwise. And we've seen this practice time and again in debate on these threads. When you try to bring a roundtable of evidence to the fore, the gay advocates here and elsewhere have a specialty of upturning the table so that the various elements on the surface fall to the floor in apparent dissarray. So I pick up the table, set it right and place the elements back on.

Take a look at them again.

 

This article comes from Clinical Psychiatry News. Not from a christian pro-family group. These are top specialists in their field: human psychology.

Apparently I'm not the only one suggesting we stop sequestering various known reams of data and begin to see them as related. They even go as far as to say that these related components are themselves an epidemic among gay men. Suppose this might lead to suicide?

 

Right.

I see the ignorance, evidently you disagree.

I did not say/imply that being "homosexual" causes suicide. (If you can find that I did, quote or link it, please.)

I didn't mention that about you; are you sure you're talking to the proper interlocutor?

I agree with you. I think you are referring to Silhouette's posts. I for one, don't see anything wrong with being "homosexual". The hardest thing about it, is people 'rejecting' you (particularly as it is done in American society).

And there is the "ignorance" again. Show/prove where I have tried to do that. And if you think that gay teens DO NOT face more dire circumstances in this society... I question what you've been actually paying attention to. There is a difference between 'coddling' a human being, and giving them proper support where they need it.

Gay kids need a bit more SUPPORT in American society at this time. If you aren't homosexual and haven't lived through being gay as a teenager... then YOU most likely wouldn't understand the magnitude of the difficulties of dealing with that in reality. Not that YOU could not learn, but that it is NOT necessarily evident to the standard heterosexual person in America. Remember, people are generally NOT taught about such difficulties... and gay teens more than anyone else need a heads-up on how to deal with them MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. If that kind of heads-up for gay teens is what YOU mean by "coddling"... then I don't care what you think.

Gay kids need to know HOW to deal with the rejection and hatred, which most heterosexual kids don't ever experience in any serious way. Heterosexual kids may experience it as a joke or passing insult... but most gay people are made to feel that rejection in DEEP and SUSTAINED ways, by the mere virtue that our society has not yet accepted that homosexual people are right there enduring that hatred and bigotry which is almost socially acceptable to rain upon them. And yeah... it is typically based upon FEAR and IGNORANCE; the word for it is "homophobia" and America hasn't learned to deal properly with it 'yet'.

You are speaking from IGNORANCE again. What if your spouse came home and told you almost daily, that you were 'disapproved of' in some serious and convincing manner? What if you were told that you weren't good enough to measure up to other human beings, by those who should be loving and caring for you? (It WOULD eventually affect you... whether you "sucked it up" or not.)

If YOU THINK that gay kids could or SHOULD "suck up" all that hatred, rejection, alienation and dehumanization... then YOU are thinking foolishly. YOU would be a part of the problem in this society, not one offering solutions. YOU would be promoting the very neuroses which LEAD to suicide. And the SAD thing about that, is that YOU don't even realize it. You speak so smugly about sucking-up HATRED and REJECTION... as if young people (especially) aren't affected by the flood of it from their peers and society.

YOU (and others with shallow reasoning), are behind me learning to become less tolerant of the ignorance I hear (especially in these fora). You offer no real help to CHANGE this society (as many anti-homosexual people do not), and of course, leave it up to relatively activistic homosexual people like myself and rights advocates to make those changes. Then, you whine that the changes have come.

Okay. I think it's time for you and those who believe homosexuals should somehow learn to put up with this society, to SUCK IT UP YOURSELVES. The strength that most homosexual people learn, is to rebel (purposefully but selectively) and make the darned changes which closed-minded and hateful people WILL NOT make.

Yes, it all takes time and may be annoying and painful in certain ways, but it is something that must happen in reality. YOU need to figure out and accept (suck it up) that homosexual people (especially teens) DO have uniquely significant hurdles to overcome and deal with; and they cannot just blow them off as the 'usual' things that ALL teens endure. They are not the same kinds of difficulties which heterosexual teens face. And yes, it is IGNORANT of you or anyone else to suggest that is the case.

So yes, I'm fairly intolerant of the BS (even angry) at this point. I read to see the solutions people might offer, because I realize I couldn't know everything... but here you come with "suck it up", the WORST POSSIBLE ANSWER I could ever imagine. For the record I DID "suck it up"... and now here it is coming back out at your inept suggestion.

Don't expect homosexual people to continually tolerate the BS many would spew as answers or truth; they know better than that.

 

To help educate those who want to know, here is more info.

 

Hip Hip Hooray!!

 

You have obviously never been in love.

If you're lucky then one day that might happen to you.

You are in for a BIG surprise.

 

You are assuming far too much. If it were all as clear and simple as you imply, the APA and others would have embraced such views by now. Not only that, but many people would have successfully had their sexual-orientations altered or reversed at this point in time.

You aren't saying anything so credible, that the official findings of such organizations as the APA could/would be disregarded.

 

The APA isn't God. Their institution has been...for lack of a better phrase.."tampered with". There is insurrection within their ranks on almost all issues anyway since psychology is an ever-oscillating field. That's unfortunate because it means they rely more on political winds than they do real science. So much for their credibility.

And they don't run animal science..fortunately. If they did, many endangered zoo species would have gone extinct because as those handlers engaged in the practice of training sexual orientation, the gay lobby would've freaked out and had artificial insemination removed from the "approved list of ethical practices".

The FACT remains that across mammalian species, including ours [for it cannot be an exception] sexual orientation can be oriented in any direction the trainer so desires. Pavlov's dog. You cannot rewrite a fact-in-practice just because it shines the light of truth on something you don't want discovered.

Enjoy your hamburgers & milk: brought to you by semen from trained-gay bulls who mount steers to ejaculate and inseminated vast herds of cows. Or how about some bacon? Lamb?

Read my signature.

 

False.

Entirely false for that matter.

 

And who exactly is "God" (in your opinion)?

And 'religion' hasn't been fiddled-with for many millenia?

Please, share something we DON'T know.

 

Please don't take this personally but to me you come across as very, very weird.

You have a big thing about people being "tampered with" which is outside of the experience of most people whether or not they happen to be straight or gay.

Your whole theses on sexuality seems to be predicated on the voluntary versus the involuntary. You seem to see human relationships as based on contract of force.

For most people, straight or gay, these are not issues of concern beyond the simple does he/she like me and "can we get along?" dynamics of any normal, adult, human relationship.

You rely on hate groups for data and, when challenged, you simply re-iterate their spewings; never considering the counter arguments or taking the opportunity to place them under review.

Without wishing to insult genuine sufferers of autism, your inability to process outward information and to incorporate such findings into a continuing string of discourse (beyond repeated posting of same unsubstantiated data from the websites of known hate groups) is almost pathologically autistic in its method.

You sound like a patient diagnosing what's wrong with the doctor.

 

It probably doesn't occur to you since you are so obsessed and permeated in your agenda, but it is actually people like you that want to pressure those that genuinely love each other into not loving each other. Nasty business, that.

You try to intimate / make it sound as though all gay people were abused / are gay because of trauma / compulsion. That's because your agenda wants to say they are gay against their will. Well, no. They are are gay against YOUR will. So stop projecting.

Perhaps you feel heterosexual against your will, who knows. Seems to be a recurring theme for you - this thing of saying that people are a particular way against their will. Perhaps your psychobabble could be better directed towards yourself to uncover why you have a preoccupation with a sexuality that is not yours does not concern you and when your offerings regarding homosexuality are particularly negative and "disaffirming". That negativity can't be good for you, lol.

And isn't that what you're seeking? To take control away from them because you don't like homosexuality? Better if you just stated plainly you don't like homosexuality instead of posting such disjointed psychobable that you clearly don't have a handle on.

No, it's not akin to that. Yours is a negative summation of homosexuality and you will paint it that way every time in every circumstance. Your anaogies in general have been ludicrous and irrational.

You should consider the psychological hog-tying that you are attempting to push on homosexuals. Homosexuals would more than likely deem your attitude a "mental torture" to them.

 

I suggest we all put forth our favourite psychological theories / writers and flood the thread, lol.

Lots of long quotes. Bolded here and there. Then some mindless extrapolations should do the trick....

 

This is a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

​

 

Life is strange, I guess. Is it about winning moves? I'd be hard-pressed to know what it's about. About attitudes, maybe. For me, about how very odd I find the attitudes of some others. But you're right, it probably is a strange game. Add it to the very many strange games going around on this board.

 

Columbine, please don't take this personally but..I'm going to put your post over at the "Erasing Data.." thread. http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...agendas-ongoing-retooling-truth-itself-7.html

This tactic is often used as a last resort when the gay lobby is backed into a corner. It's the "don't you have idden issues if you're here debating things like gay suicide or gays getting married or gays teaching gay propaganda in schools??? The implication-by-example is that anyone who has an issue with these current events, these huge inroads into the status quo of society, is somehow flawed, insane, or "has issues". The twin to that attempt to erase the debate itself is calling someone a closet homosexual for "being obsessed" with the topic.


I'm obsessed with the topic for sure. And that is because somebody needs to be the voice of dissent in a sea of blind politically-correct sheep, or worse, blind militant christians hoping to win a debate about science on terms of "faith". It's my calling....so to speak..

 

And you folks aren't talking much about this article from the February 2005 Clinical Psychiatry News? Seems somebody else thinks "force" may be involved in the gay male etiology at least. And they have fancy degrees from major learning institutions, an organization and even a Journal. Maybe we should listen to them speak about what they know?

Don't forget, lest you're tempted to make this thread an ad hominem, we are talking about GAY TEEN SUICIDE AND POSSIBLE CAUSES OF IT. I think it's a subject worth addressing. I'm sure the psychiatric people do too, otherwise they wouldn't have printed this article. If you don't take the subject seriously, to explore ALL possible causes and not just cherry picked ones for your gay advocacy agenda, then go somewhere else and post.

 

The article you quote has nothing to do with teen suicide, its about substance abuse among gay men and effective methods of treatment.

It's also conducted in Atlanta, Georgia a state which has little or no legal provisions for the protection of gay people.

As recently as 2009 Atlanta police raided a gay bar for no other apparent reason than the crime of "drinking while gay":

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-24/...gle-officers-used-excessive-force?_s=PM:CRIME

"During the raid, patrons were made to lie face down on the floor while background checks were run on everyone, the statement said. "Eagle bar patrons heard anti-gay slurs; were forced to lay in spilled beer and broken glass; and one was forced to lie on the floor even though he had injured his back in the Iraq War."

How do you think growing up in a state or country which institutionalizes such discrimination against a certain group affects the members of that group and, as children, their vision of the opportunities that await them in adulthood?

Gay kids need to be presented with positive messages of opportunity.

It's no surprise that, when treated with an overwhelming message of negativity, a disproportionate number will turn toward destructive behaviors.

These patterns are repeated across a range of disadvantaged minority groups. The effects of such stigma may take decades to expunge even if the law is not explicit in supporting it.

You can't legislate everyone into happy and fulfilling lives but you can make sure the law does not play a part in discrimination and in preventing people from reaching their aims including the right to have redress against abuse by agencies of state and the ability to form legal families with the persons of their choosing.

This won't solve everything overnight but at least it's a start.

If you are genuinely concerned about gay kids (which I seriously doubt) then maybe those are causes you ought to get behind?

 

Erase data much do you?..lol..

So let me get this straight. If an accredited periodical like Clinical Psychiatric News publishes an article done by accredited professional who happen to live or conduct a study in a state that the Agenda hasn't "approved" for studies, then those studies don't carry weight. Did I get that right? By that yardstick we have many states that don't allow gay marraiges. Are schools and professional institutions located in those states now going to have to surrender their status?

Give me a freakin break. Look how much further this advocate attempts to reach:

And where, pray tell, do you think gay men come from? Could it be gay teens? And since those issues have been declared as "linked" by American clinical psychiatric specialists, couldn't being a victim of child molestation [one of the linked issues] be a lifelong source of angst, no matter what the stage or age?

Be honest. You're not here to tell the truth are you? You're here to spin, even at the cost of human life. And it's that exact point that I started this thread to demonstrate. I knew if I asked these pressing questions, that gay advocates would line up to block data that showed possible sources of gay teen angst. That they would gyrate and spin, erase and block any discussion that might lead to a drop in that suicide rate.

Congratulations. You have shown your true colors quite well.

But I live in a state where gay marriage isn't legal so my points, quotes, links and thoughts have no weight or relevance to the conversation.

Wow, brave new world indeed.. Intellectual fascism.

If I was a speculative person, at this point I would speculate that gay advocates, instead of being really concerned about gay teen suicide rates per se [I'm sure they are on some level], are more concerned about milking compassion to forward an agenda without people pausing to really reflect on what that agenda is all about...roots and all... I'd be thinking that blinding people with their own compassion [for gay teens committing suicide] might get a knee-jerk approval of things that should otherwise be very thoughtfully and carefully considered.

What would possibly compel a gay advocate to press people to ignore direct relationships between being victims of sexual abuse as kids, promiscuity, drug abuse, violence and deep depression in gay men? And all this by and from our nation's top mental health professionals? If they have data that might shed a light on gay teen angst, why on earth would anyone promote diminishing that data, squelching it, sequestering it or dismissing it because it "came from a state where gay marriage isn't approved yet"?

What sick person would be up to that. No, really?