God Is Impossible: Problem of Evil

They are like children, we have to hold their hand and walk them along the path.

 

But I did refute it even if you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Sure. But I'm not your "god". And neither are you or that hypothetical mother.

Tell me, is your god identical to a human in his "perfection" and purity?

I proved it wrong with ever sentence I've written. Your only problem so far is that you refuse to admit the obvious.

 

I think it was written by man. And now you will say those writings by man are what's conflicted. And I will agree and remind you that this means the god it describes and discusses and reports and speaks for cannot exist since "it" (god) is conflicted.

 

Correct. I'd also add the words "deeply flawed". If you're trying to mankind's misunderstanding of or flawed concept of God means God doesn't exist, I think that's flawed logic. If you are simply saying the God described in the Bible isn't a true depiction, I readily agree.

 

Note that I said "the god it (the bible) describes and discusses and reports and speaks for cannot exist since "it" (god) is conflicted.

If you really want to get in touch with the Spirit, throw away your bible.

 

Yes, I read it the first time. The problem is you are trying to get others to agree with a loaded statement as exemplified in your final statement.

A better statement would be "If you want to understand God, look at the larger concepts and do not get wrapped around the perceptions of desert nomads from over 3500 years ago."

 

Even if your premise is true, that's not evidence against a creator or even the God of the Bible. At best , your premise demonstrates that the God of the Bible, isn't benevolent.

 

If a man loves his child, that love will translate to something that looks rather like hatred for anyone who tries to molest that child; and just as that man is not conflicted, neither is God.

Seeing God Himself doesn't lead anyone down a path he or she does not wish to follow, I cannot help but wonder who the hell you think you are, presuming to do what He will not.

 

Probably the biggest problem is the inclination of the human mind to take the bible literally.

 

It is not valid to compare human emotions and responses to god. And you raise the issue of love. Human love is nothing like the unconditional love that is attributed to "god". Once you experience unconditional love, you know this. I experienced it. I know whereof I speak on this.

 

So God is not all powerful and not all good which the bible does claim. What's the point in believing in him? If the bible is false, why is it the best selling fiction book of all time?

 

I think that's more about education, not genetics.

 

If god knows all, then free will is impossible. He knows what you will de before you do it, and before you were created. So, since god is all knowing, god knew that humans would commit/create evil, and since he created them anyway, god created evil.

 

Logical no doubt. I guess if he does know all, he develops amnesia so it suprises him when it happens? Otherwise god would be very bored.

 

Like I said, we're assuming for sake of argument that your premise is true. Even if it is true, to answer why you should believe in him, because if you don't, you'll go to hell.

 

Knowing something isn't the same as controlling something. I know that gravity works and if I jump off a cliff then I would fall to my death. However knowing that doesn't mean that I control gravity or even that I'm destined to jump off. Basically God calculated and predicted the consequences of every little action.

 

if gods knows all, then he knows if a person will commit evil. god creates that person anyway, god created evil.

 

Well in one respect this is right. Certainly it was Augustine's response to the problem of free will. However, it's the temporal aspect combined with God's perfect knowledge that makes it particularly difficult. If God knows on March 23, 1985 that you will be at home typing on your computer at 8:00pm today, could you have chosen to do otherwise? Since God is omniscient and can't be wrong, it seems that whatever he knows in 1985 must happen in the future, which precludes one from being able to choose an alternative. Now the way some philosophers (compatibilists) have typically gotten around this is to object that free will entails the ability to choose otherwise, they say that as long as you want to choose the way that you must that you are free. But this is not without problems - take aging for example. If a child the age of 5 wants to age, can it be said that the child is free in relation to aging? If this sounds absurd, then you probably hold that free will entails the ability/possibility to choose between competing options and if this is true, then God's omniscience has real problems for freedom (unless of course you believe that our actions today can change what happens in 1985). Another option is to claim that God is outside of time (see Boethius), but this creates its own set of problems for a God that is said to act in various ways (since any change necessitates temporal descriptions).

 

By that logic, Ford creates cars and they know that one day their car will end up in the scrap heap. Therefore Ford creates junk.

 

To answer this the best I can, you do have free will but God foresaw your chain of choices and predicted what you would be doing right now. You have the choice to do whatever you want, but God saw what you'll ultimately go with. To give a crude analogy, it'll be like you knowing what time you'll likely be typing on your keyboard in response to me. You've calculated the time it'll take to make a decent response and somewhat schedule that to your livelihood because you know how much time you have before going to work, while at work, and coming home from work to have a general idea when is a good time to respond to me. It's sort of like that with God but far more precise and accurate.

 

Granted. But as you say in my case it's a prediction of a likely outcome; however, in God's case, it's absolute knowledge - and as such it's impossible for God to be wrong (hence the inability for me to do otherwise). Additionally, there are some tricky metaphysical questions about the nature of time in play here (e.g. what is the nature of future existence - what is its "Being"?).

 

So it's all or nothing? All the evil and suffering in the world or no free will? So there would be no free will if the 2004 tsunami hadn't happened?

 

How do you know God is moral, or worthy of worship, if no matter what God is always right? The famous Euthyphro dilemma:

Does God command the good because it's good? or Is it good because God commands it? If you answer the latter then God has no reasons for why something is good or bad, and hence there is nothing inherently moral about any of his commands. In which case you couldn't call God good, because the term good would lack all meaning - it would merely be saying "God is God" God could will genocide or child abuse to be moral - or flying planes into buildings. This would rob God of any moral character and seemingly rob him of perfection. Quite the philosophical and theological dilemma.

 

Why do you think God is controlling everything?

He may have just made the world, allowed evil into it, and let it take its own course.

Remember that its not about this world, its about where we are eventually going.

We are only here for a short time to prove to God that we deserve to enter His Kingdom.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if you live 20 years or 80, if you are rich or poor, if you suffer or never get hurt.

 

Allowing surplus evil would be immoral. An all loving, omni-benevolent God would not allow any suffering beyond what was necessary for some greater good. Hence any instance of surplus suffering (suffering beyond what is necessary) would be evidence against the existence of a perfect god (this is essentially the essence of the evidential problem of evil).

Why would we need to prove ourselves to God, if god already knew our character (via omniscience)?