Gun Control needs to be instituted

I read the first paragraph and ignored the rest.

It really is very simple. If the tools used to kill (guns) are restricted and/or controlled, by nature it will reduce the amount of deaths no matter the reason for the killings.

It is like the construction of a building, if you take away the cement, the building is not likely to be built or less buildings built.

End of story.

 

You cannot demonstrate this to be true, and you know it.
End of story.

 

You claims are fake news. You are counting a lawful defense shooting as a failure, a lawful police shooting as a failure and you are also counting suicides as the felony killing of another with a firearm. We tire of the disinformation and it fools few. I doubt if even you are fooled by this disinformation.

Clean up a handful of very violent Democrat run cities and we have one of the safest nations in the world.

 

You are reaching the limit of my patience. I don't know if you have (or not have) any desire to continue a dialogue with me but the constant repetition (at least 5 times) of what I have already answered previously and have also stated that I consider it to be of minor importance to the overall problem, is becoming tiresome and useless. Neither you nor I convincing the other is going to change the realty of the problem. What you are doing though, may cause the cessation of communication between us.

Let me know if you want to go further by advancing past this area. If not, I will say good-bye.

Up to now, I have had the courtesy (and some interest) in answering all your posts to me and continuing to debate/converse. It is becoming something I am losing interest in continuing if you continue to key/repeat the same thing over and over again. You either agree to disagree and move forward or we can stop totally the communication.

Your call.

 

It is evident that there is absolutely no reason to continue our conversations. I deal with data and facts and I back them us with links to the data. You are not doing that, meaning you are set in your way of thinking and are incapable to consider anything other than what you already believe, even when proven wrong (as I did with this meme of yours).

I have absolutely no desire to continue conversing with someone that uses biased lies to make his points.

 

Now that your disinformation has been exposed, if you want to run away you are free to do so.

 

when facts rear their fearsome head, brave sir lucky turns and fled! This guy is going to ignore everyone who thrashes his posts. And given just about everyone is thrashing his posts, that means he won't have anyone to respond to soon enough

 

its a TKO. he cannot refute that nor can he refute that gun banners include suicides to hide the fact that blue areas are the murder centers of the USA

 

It's complete crap. Nearly all the felony firearm killings in the US are occuring in a handful of horrible violent blue run cities and they are committed by illegally armed felony gangs that are operating openly. And the gun laws are seldom enforced against them, as a choice. If all the local government officials were paid off by the gangs they couldn't get better protection from our laws.

But, we see NONE of the Leftists, with the crocodile tears, demanding that these felon gangs that doing all this killing be disarmed and incarcerated, likely because they don't actually give a damn about the victims. This is all about disarming the law-abiding because authoritarians know that they cannot impose illicit tyranny on a well armed citizenry.

 

LOL. If it were that simple Illinois would not have more firearm violence than my state! End of story.

 

Excellent comments.

I think there is a growing segment of the country who really don't comprehend why people would want to legally own guns. They lump us all together as future criminals. It really is sad to see how some have given up thinking for themselves and simply repeat the gun controllers' and banners' extreme talking points as their own.

 

This comes from segments of society where all kids get a trophy, scumbags are merely "misunderstood" and we spend more time trying to avoid offending losers, weirdos, deviants and other misfits rather than demanding excellence from our kids

 

winning is very important in our society, what is left unsaid is "by any-means necessary including criminal and IMO this accounts for much bad behaiviour, whats needed is more honest dialog and cooperation between us all

 

You have made many false claims. I’ve corrected some of them.

The most egregious claim you have made is that it’s proven more laws result in less firearm violence. I’ve shown this is not the case. Two of the states from YOUR SOURCE with some of the “strongest” laws on firearms have much higher rates of violence than states with very “lax” gun laws.

Your claim of causality is analogous to claiming firearm violence is proven to be caused by race. Neither are supported by evidence.

All you have, even in the statistics you’ve provided that are accurate, is correlation. That’s it. And your statistics are cherry picked as I’ve pointed out on the national scale with tripling of firearm homicides after sweeping new gun laws in 1968 and on the state level with states having very strict laws still having double the rate of firearm violence of some states with few laws.

You can do as you please. I had hoped you would actually examine your link you provided me but so far you have refused to do so.

For something for you to think about. Let’s say we believed the false information you provided about military rifles being a substantial problem in the context of firearm homicides. Based on that false information we take ALL the military rifles away from law abiding Americans. We violate rights and we end up with virtually no reduction in firearm violence.

But if we reject that false information and focus on real things that have been linked to violence in CONTROLLED studies (absent fathers, sugar intake, meals eaten as a family, etc., all of which the US is WORST or near worst for among nations) we could not only see reduction in firearm violence but ALL VIOLENCE and suicide. As a bonus, healthcare spending would be reduced, lifespans would increase, and poverty would decrease. And NOBODY’S RIGHTS would need to be violated.

If you REALLY believe establishing causation is not important there probably isn’t any point in continuing. If you are unwilling to examine your own links we probably aren’t going to get much further. If you are more interested in false information than correct information we aren’t going to accomplish anything because I won’t accept verifiably incorrect information.

If you are willing to accept facts and reject falsehoods and fallacies there is certainly interest in continuing on my part. But I’m completely uninterested in fallacious arguments or repetitive presentation of information you don’t care is accurate or not.

Either way, it’s very rare I engage in discussions on PF in an attempt to change the mind of the other party. The correct information I post and the incorrect information I expose is mainly for the benefit of third parties who may be interested in facts, not just the top 5 Google hits. So whether you choose to engage is up to you. I’ll expose fraud and supply correcting information regardless of your choice.

I think the most important thing of all we’ve already established. You are willing to openly and brazenly violate constitutional rights to implement unconstitutional laws that can not be shown to have a causal effect on crime. You are willing to violate constitutionally protected rights based on observed correlation that isn’t even consistent, but often an inverse correlation. It’s been my experience in the past those with that level of authoritarian mindset are never interested in facts or evidence. This conversation has buttressed that past experience.

 

So far much of your supplied information has not been factual. That’s the problem.

 

When their sources are shown to be purveyors of disinformation they haven’t much choice. When they admit they are willing to violate your rights over their opinions based on disinformation, putting someone on ignore is pretty mild! I’m more concerned about their voting behavior etc.!

 

Here is a general statement that needs to be stated, if and when people are looking for truth and for solutions.

I use data and statistics for my posts. Can that data or statistics be wrong, misinformed or simply misinterpreted? Yes, absolutely. Nonetheless, those statistics and data have been researched and usually by non-biased organizations that are looking for the data so solutions can be found and that means that more often than not, they are correct.

I am willing to listen to anyone that approaches the debate with the same thought in mind, which is to find truth and interpret the data so solutions can be found.

When a data source has been proven to be biased and or totally wrong, I will back off and look for other data sources. Case in point, I used to use mediabiasfactcheck.com to define biased sources. I was shown (with enough data/proof) that the site was highly biased itself. Since then, I have not used that site for anything. I expect the same from the other side of the debate.

In a recent case, this was a piece of data/statistics that was shown to me:



I checked the meme out and I could not find the source of the data. What I did find is that this meme has been around for 8 years and it has been proven to be "totally false". As such, anyone that still believes this data is someone that is not searching for the truth or for solutions. Such a person is not worthy of having a debate with.

Every single time I have put a person on ignore (and I have to be truthful, on this site I have more people on ignore than on any other political forum), I have been accused of running away. Of not wanting to face the truth. I am not running away. I just refuse to converse with someone that is not willing to learn the facts and the truth and is plying their biased ideas without supplying data and statistics that are from reliable sources. Those people are not interested in debating. They are here to orate their personal views and desires. Simply stated, I am not here to waste my time and cater to them. .

If I run out of people that are willing to debate about the facts and truths, it is no loss. I am here trying to make a difference (though minimal in nature) to the problems facing our nation. Talking to people that don't have a desire to do that, is useless and a total waste of time.

I have nothing else to say. End of story..

 

Has Lucky ever told us what would be the solution to what he claims is a problem that vexes him?

 

Yes it’s sad to see zero critical thought. In this case there is an admission of letting Google do the thinking. Geez. If I was dead set on not thinking for myself, Google would not be what I abdicated my responsibility to! That’s like playing Russian Roulette with six loaded cylinders!

I’m in the unique position as a firearm owner/user of being sort of a hit-man in the “employ” of others, including those who wish to control/remove firearms. Essentially I use firearms to accomplish tasks necessary to provide food for the very people who view me as dangerous or a potential criminal. I use firearms so they don’t have to do the killing necessary for their own survival. I’m being paid for providing those services by the folks who think I shouldn’t have the ability to render those services.

It’s bizarre, but as you say, there is no critical thought in that demographic.

 

Are you looking for truth?

Why are you talking about others being unwilling to accept truth when you have posted so much misinformation and disinformation in this thread?

Can you show anything I’ve posted to be incorrect?

Are you willing to examine data/statistics you provided?

Should we all put you on ignore because you posted so much information that is not factual? Are you willing to hold yourself to the standard you expect of others?

 

I will answer this post of yours to the best of my ability and with honesty as to what I feel. In other words, I am not trying to convince you (or anyone else). What I am doing is showing you what I believe to be true.

I do want to establish one thing before I go further. I am an evaluator by nature. I am a learned man from a highly intelligent family (my father was a lawyer, was the first person to import TV's into Mexico, was highly successful in all his ventures and I was sent to the best schools that money could pay for). In addition, I was a very successful salesman all my life and then I was hired and trained to be a stock and commodity analyst and was given the job of being an official analyst for Merrill Lynch and Prudential-Bache in the southeast of the United States. Simply stated, many investors in those companies depended on my evaluations of the stock and commodity market and I was not often wrong, given that if I was wrong often, I would have been fired. I left that industry in 1987 to build a company with my ex-wife and I was successful in my evaluations of that industry as my company became #1 in my area within 2 years. My wife and I got divorced in 1998 and we sold the company with a big profit and I re-entered the stock market in 2005 and I started a stock chart evaluation service in 2007 that is still going on. I have been successful in trading the stock market the past 15 years and proof of my success is that quite a few of the subscribers that joined my service in 2007 are still with me. If you do not do a good job, people don't stay.

Simply stated, I am not a dumb person and my job for most of that last 47 years has been "evaluating" situations and coming up with the right evaluations.

Having said all of that and getting back to your points on this thread, I do not agree that you have proven your points, at least not to the point of making my points wrong. Evidently, your evaluation and values of the data are different than mine. You might be right and I may be wrong but all that is happening is that we are evaluating things from different perspectives and values.

One thing that you have failed to evaluate correctly are my words. I have gone to extremes to make a point (such as my statement about gun control being the most important) but that is not what I truly believe. I am a person that walks the middle road and rejects all extremes. I believe in the right to carry arms and do not believe we need to ignore the Constitution (something you just finished stating that I said or meant). Nonetheless, I do believe that too many guns are owned by each person and I believe there are some guns that should not be owned by the general populace (such as automatic weapons that can kill many at one time). I also believe in full background checks so that people that have shown violent actions in the past are not allowed to buy guns. These are the gun controls that should be instituted, in my opinion.

To me, those are the most important things that can be done. Everything else you mention (such as correlation and causation) can be discussed in order to fine tune the solution. Nonetheless, I do believe that life is very important and if there is something that can be done NOW to prevent further deaths, it needs to be done. That means, we need to institute background checks and limit the kinds of guns that can be bought.

If after this explanation of mine, you still see me the way you see me, there is nothing else that can be done. I have given you the fullest picture of who I am and what I believe and think that I can.

You let me know what you want to do now. .

 

Post 214, which I quoted. You lose.

 

Translation: "Having reached the limit of my intellect, I will take my ball and go home in a snit."

 

Tis the Truth-you win Jarlaxle

 

Research supports it