Hall of Fame: Bonds, Sosa NO! Roger Maris, YES!

What I find interesting about Ruth was that he was also a remarkable pitcher..... Carlos Zambrano x10.....

Obviously I have never seen Ruth play except for youtube (and never seen him pitch) however his stats suggest he was above and beyond his peers - even as a pitcher...

Of course he played in an era where baseball wasn't a career but something you did because it was fun and you got a few bucks for doing it and people enjoyed watching you do it...

But McGwire and Sosa - it's clear those two were juicing - they turned into huge guys overnight and no weight room will do that...

Of course Ruth only got fatter and slower.... He would eat 5 hot dogs and hit 2 dingers... lol...

Also, he played less games a season, so adjusted he perhaps would still hold the HR crown, which is why there is an asterisk next to Maris .

 

Well, I was a mere lad, but I did get to see Aaron, Mays, and McCovey, and Musial and Spahn (in their later years). I used to pretend I was a right-handed Warren Spahn and tried to get a huge bend out of my curveball.

I think I'd do a couple things for baseball if somebody made me commish. I'd bring in the fences some, but make them much higher. I'd like to see more doubles and triples. I'd also make all pitcher throws to first base be balls. It would encourage bigger lead-offs and stolen bases, but there'd also be more pick-offs. I'd also draw an actual chalk line from the rubber perpendicular to the first base line so that it wasn't 'imaginary' anymore for left-handed pitchers. How tough could that be? Your right foot touches to line or ends up toward the catcher's side, it's a balk.

 

Baseball is more influenced by teams with tons of money, big market teams who can buy all the free agents they like vs. small market teams which have to do it the old fashioned way. Build from within and through the farm system. Smart trades with the players approaching free agency. Kansas City did a great job with this and in the past the Minnesota Twins were good at this too. I suppose one has to throw in Oakland and Pittsburgh in the national league.

But being able to scarf up most free agents, does that mean those teams are buying a pennant? Sometimes it is cohesiveness and the team spirit that can overcome teams with all the superstars. But for me there are way too many teams in each league and too many teams qualify for the playoff. Remember I was brought up on baseball of the 1950's, 8 teams in each league with the winner of the league going to the world series.

That all changed in 1969 with the expansion to 12 teams and two divisions. That was okay as it included 18 games within the division and 12 against the other division with no interleague play. In my opinion that is exactly where it should have stayed. So I am not an avid fan as I once was.

 

Are you a sock for tinfoil, or is he a sock for you?

 

oh yeah thats a no brainer that Maris is not the true home run king and Ruth is.That doesnt take away what a great player Maris was,its just that he has that asterisk next to his name because of the fact he played in more games with more chances. Only with him having an asterisk next to his name,he didnt taint the game like the others mentioned,it was out of his control.HE did nothing wrong. oh and you forgot to mention Bonds name here.

But McGwire and Sosa - it's clear those two were juicing

yeah i forgot that Ruth was a great pitcher as well before he became an outfielder.the fact Ruth played in a day and age where they werent paid money and didnt have the luxarys todays players do nice hotel suites,first class travel,even locker rooms that feel like a hotel,its a no brainer Ruth is the real home run king in a single season.

 

damn had no idea you were such an old man.I am so jeoulous you got to see all those players.I envy you. Thats why I feel fortunate to be a life long Royals fan because that is the reason they are so successful is because they have a huge group of players that play the game for the love of the game,not for the love of the money,they play for each other and for the fans as well and that is an EXTREME rarity in this day and age.they have made baseball exciting again.

they play old fashion baseball like the old Royals teams from the 70's when George Brett played. they steal bases,they dont try and get the big home run,they bunt,they hit doubles AND triples just like the old Royals teams from the 70's did.

If you want to watch some good old fashioned baseball played the way it was MEANT to be played with players stealing bases,hitting for doubles and triples,then you need to become a Royals fan because you WILL get that when you watch them. they have made baseball fun again.

 

exactly.I could not have said it better myself. yeah that was what destroyed the game of baseball and ruined it was when they went to that stupid three way wild card playoff format. Baseball was the last sport that did it RIGHT.win the division and move on and face the other division winner in your league. I lost interest in baseball when they started that asinine wild card.

that was what I just got done saying is that is WHY the Royals are so successsful.Its not just because they are good and have talented players,its because they have the right chemistry,they built from within and made smart trades. they play for each other,not for the big fat paycheck like most other teams. same with the Pirates and Cubs.

The reason the small market teams Pittsburgh and Kansas City are so successful is not only because they play for each other and for the love of the game instead of the money,but because like you said,smart player development and good trades. Oakland was successful for a while as well also doing that but they have ruined their GM has ruined that franchise with horrible trades getting rid of their good players and having a terrible bullpen.

 

One advantage of being an old man is that you did get to see legends play. I saw Jackie Robinson in his later years both in Brooklyn and LA, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Yogi Berra, Mickey Mantle, Maris, Ford, Koufax and Drysdale, Early Winn who pitched for the White Sox’s and let to the 1959 AL pennant, Nellie Fox, Hoyt Wilhelm and so many more. Growing up the debate was on who was the best center fielder, Mays, Mantle or Snider. Then there was Aaron, Spahn, Matthews of my Braves. First in Boston and then in Milwaukee.

Remember Spahn and Sain and pray for rain. Ernie Banks of the Cubs, Harmon Killebrew of the Washington Senators and then the move to Minnesota. The sad day when the Dodgers and Giants left NY for the west coast. The glorified day when the Braves left Milwaukee for Atlanta. Before that all we had was the Atlanta Crackers, a AA Southern League franchise of the Braves. For those too young the Braves was first in Boston, the A’s in Philadelphia, then KC. The Orioles were known as the St. Louis Browns. Then a whole bunch of moving and additions.

Ah, but such fond memories.

 

You and me both, once baseball went to this 3 divisions with a wild card, now two, it ruin it for me. I hated the DH, I hate artificial turf and domed ball parks. But baseball was still baseball for me until the 3 division set up. It use to be you have win something. Second best would not due. Allowing non-winners into the playoffs along with interleague play was the last straw for me. Today instead of watching or listening to around 100 games a year, I check out the standings every once in awhile.

The days of Ernie Banks and let's play two are long gone. Before free agency even if your team was bad, if it was the pits, your favorite players was still there for you to go see and root for. The days of a ball player spending his entire career with one team is gone. I long for the game of the 50's and 60's, not this weird whatever that exists today.

 

I much rather be an old man like you and him because not only was baseball not corrupt like it is now,the country was a much more pleasant place to live in.times were much more innocent back then.i feel sorry for kids growing up now,the world is hell now and will only get worse.

 

That it was. I agree.

 

yeah you aint kidding.back then when your team was the pits,you at least could still support them and cheer them on and get excited about the upcoming season because you knew most the players would be back every year. yeah thats a good point on free agency,forgot to mention that.that was what REALLY started the decline of baseball and ruined it,the people that brought that to the game i hope are rotting in hell right now.

yeah I always wondered why there was not interleague play but now i see why there wasnt. with baseball it wasnt so bad with domed ballparks since they only had a couple of them seattle and minnesota.glad to see they got wise and got rid of them.I like the DH myself,these days the pitchers dont try and be good hitters so its kinda boring when the pitcher hits.just as long as they keep it as it is with the NL having it and the american league NOT having it Im okay with it.had it not been for the DH players like Hal Mcrae would not have been able to play.Mcrae had a bad injury in his young career so he could not run well at all so if not for the DH,i would not have had the years of enjoying watching him like i got to.His career would have been cut short if not for the DH.

but yeah Im with you on artificial turf as well.

speaking of domes,that more than anything was what made me turned off with the NFL.I have nothing against hot weather teams like arizona and houston playing in domes but st louis,minnesota and detroit? pathetic.football for sure was never meant to be played indoors. fu ck the NFL is what i say.

the state of minnesota really screwed up,they had a chance to right a wrong and build an outdoor stadium for the vikings but they go and build another freaking indoor stadium?

like captain kirk always said on star trek-beam me up scotty,theres no intelligent life forms on this planet.

 

Its all about the money these days. Another thing that is forgotten back when there were only 8 teams per league is each team had 15-20 minor league teams. It seemed almost everyone lived close to a team. You got to see all these players that later on would become the superstars of major league baseball.

Then the money was spent on player development, not millions upon millions to established players. Yes, hope sprang eternal.

 

it used to be i did not care who was in the world series.i would watch it every year.same with NFL football.i did not care who played on monday night or who was in the superbowl.i never missed it.now the chargers are the only team i will watch,they arent going to the playoffs this year so i wont be watching any of the playoff games this year. baseball got ruined for me with the three way wild card thing and free agency.

football with domed stadiums and free agency but for football,i pretty much lost interest in it when the rams left LA,thats like the yankees leaving new york.that more than anything is why i mostly just watch old NFL classic games is because it has become a joke with all these NFL teams that were allowed to leave.

oh and i also said to hell with baseball when they started tearing down these classic ball parks.I hate the yankees with a passion but i went to new york their last season in their old ball park because i wanted to see the house that Ruth built,the new one looks almost identical to the old one but still that stadium is not the house that Ruth built so its yankee stadium in NAME ONLY.

 

speaking of the Rams leaving LA,i ask this only because your probably the most intelligent poster here in the sports section-you are wise in age-lol how come YOU havent come on my Rams thread to talk about them coming back to LA? I dont understand why every poster here is not posting on it,it is ONLY the biggest sports story of the CENTURY in sports,yet nobody wants to talk about it everyday there.

I understand there are a lot of people here that are not Rams fans but come on,that should not stop people from posting there the fact it is the biggest sports story of the century-seriously. I mean as i just got done saying,I hate the yankees with a passion but had they left new york and been gone for 20 years like the Rams have been,I would be very mush interested in that story and following it.

 

Wrigley Field and Fenway Park, I think they are the only two left. Who can forget Forbes Field, Crosley Field, Sportsman Park in St. Louis. Comiskey Park in Chicago, Griffith Stadium in Washington, home of the Senators. I am sure I forgot a bunch, Shibe park in Philadelphia. All but two gone.

I was like you in watching the NFL, I can remember when the old AFL first came on the scene. Now I rarely even look at the standings. Atlanta never had a pro team when I grew up, football, basketball or whatever. The closest we came was the AA Southern League Atlanta Crackers and I loved them. Baseball was king, we got to watch the world series in school. Back in the 50's no one down here paid any attention to pro football. It was college. College still reigns.

The first world series I watched was between the New York Yankees and Brooklyn Dodger back in 1955. Watched it at school as we didn't have a TV at home. Other than that it was radio. I would listen to the Braves from Boston at night if the signal was right. If not there was the Yankees which had a very strong radio station. Cincinnati and St. Louis too.

Dang good times.

 

I don't pay much attention to football anymore. I never understood why the Rams would give up LA for a small market area, St. Louis. Heck, I don't understand most of the moves regardless of the sport. Probably for the TV deals and perhaps a new stadium. Before TV very few franchises moved regardless of the sport. In baseball the Braves left Boston for Milwaukee in 1953 and the St. Louis Browns followed to Baltimore becoming the Orioles in 1954 and the Philadelphia A's to Kansas City in 1955. But prior to those moves I do not think any baseball franchise moved at all.

Then too all the travel was by train, not by air back then so the leagues had to be rather located in a fairly compacted area. In football the Rams left Cleveland in the 40's for LA. That is before TV and air travel. Now I can remember the old Chicago Cardinals who moved to St. Louis. I had a baseball card of the whole team.

Why not all the talk about the Rams move back to LA, perhaps because this is a political site. Perhaps because today franchises seem to move all the time. Loyalty is a thing of the past. Then too until around 1960 most franchises or ball clubs were own by a single individual or family. Not all these corporations and conglomerates.

I think there are just way too many teams nowadays for me to keep track of them all.

 

yeah your really an old timer the fact you were in an age where you had to listen to it on the radio.lol the fact you remember all those other old time stadiums REALLY gives away how old you are as well.lol yeah you are right,comisky park and fenway are the only ones left,they are the only ones that wont go. when they got rid of comisky park that was when i started losing interest in baseball and of course the three way wild card was the final straw.

 

yeah i think its safe to say thats why prior to 1953 teams did not move was because they traveled by train.

I cant fault the dodgers leaving for LA because Brooklyn did it to themselves,they stopped supporting them and put all their support behind the yankees.the dodgers were so poorly attended that they had bad fan support for the world series even.

Yeah the Rams left Cleveland but they there for only like five years or so not long,their real home is LA. they could not compete with the Browns for attendance is why they left for LA.it was justified.same thing with the cardinals,they could not compete with the bears for attendance so they left for st louis.

It was a stadium issue for the Rams why they left LA,same with the Raiders and cardinals,it ALWAYS is in the NFL.that is why the raiders and chargers are talking about leaving because they need new stadiums and they havent been able to get one. for a long time the vikings were talking about leaving minnesota for LA but they finally got a new stadium deal,their new stadium is set to open next year.

The reason the Rams left LA was because the owner Georgia Frontier was a b!tch. she was a showgirl from st louis.If not for her the Rams would still be in st louis.she murdered her husband so she could get ownership of the team to move them.thank god she is dead now.would like to find her grave to go pi$$ on it while she is burning in hell for her actions.

If he was still alive today the Rams never would have left LA and would still be there now..she is burning in hell right now same as all Al Davis and all these other NFL owners who gave their fans the middle finger and left them.

 

Actually from 1946-1957 the Brooklyn Dodgers drew over a million fans each year and beat the league average for attendance each of those years. It wasn't attendance that cause the Dodgers to leave.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/laatte.shtml

As for the Rams, she probably was. I think you are absolutely correct. When ever a pro football team wants a new stadium, they threaten to leave and some do.

 

That was also true of the old stadium. Yankee Stadium was totally renovated in the mid-70s...it wasn't even a renovation, as much as a complete REBUILD. (Extensive enough the Yankees played a season at Shea.)

 

that was what I read somewhere in a newspaper article about the Dodgers not having good fan support there .Looks like the writer who wrote it did not know what he was talking about. Yeah the Rams for sure would still be in LA today if her husband was still alive. There was a mobster who was in prison who came on 60 minutes one time who confessed that he was hired by the b!tch to murder her husband.Before that,many people had their suspecions because he drowned in the ocean while swimming and he was a world class swimmer.

she was an evil woman indeed.Her husband had it arranged so that after he died,his son would take over ownership of the team and she used her power and influence she had to fix it so that he lost ownership of it and it was given to her instead. she was a very powerful and influential woman. she had the authorities in her pocket so there was never a serious investigation into his death and what the cause of it was.

she is indeed burning in hell right now.hope murdering her husband for money and ownership of that team has been worth the trip to hell for her cause that indeed is where she is suffering big time right now.

 

It was many things that caused the Dodgers to move...mostly, it was Tammany Hall's tap-dancing.

Read Forever Blue by Michael D'Antonio for the whole story. (You can get it for $4 on Amazon.)

 

There are always plenty of reasons, one was the lure of California. An untapped source. The PCL also drew good crowds and that was minor league back then. Greener pastures. The Dodgers move was contingent of the Giants moving too. I can remember the move, I was a little kid back then.

I will have to get the book for nostalgia sake. I was 7 years old when the Braves left Boston for Milwaukee. That started the movements of franchises. New York had 3 teams counting Brooklyn, Boston 2, Philadelphia 2, St. Louis 2 and Chicago 2. Only Chicago has the original two teams and New York has added the Mets.

 

There were many reasons. Near the top of the list: Ebbets Field was small (<32,000), cramped, and crumbling, access was terrible for anyone outside Brooklyn, and there was no parking.

The Giants had it even worse...the Polo Grounds had never been a wonderful baseball stadium due top its bizarre dimensions, it had been neglected for close to 15 years, the neighborhood was rapidly going downhill (it was in Harlem), and attendance was plummeting-despite a World Series win, they only drew ~15,000 per game in 1954...by 1956, they were down to only about 7000 per game. That meant that even had the owner wanted to maintain the park, he simply COULDN'T.