Healthcare--a right or not?

Medicare for all saves us a ton of money, is most efficient.

thats why i support it.

not cause I think free healthcare is a right.

 

Free healthcare an be a right....we just need to declare it as such

 

The thread is about health care and the idea that it is a right...Education is not health care and the legislation that established public education was not the legislation used to enact the mess that is ObamaCare.

Just because a poster has wandered off into West Jesus with an unrelated argument does not mean we all need to follow.

You can wander in the wilderness disconnected from the argument all you want but do not decry other folk who have not lost their way...the thread yo follow is not the thread we are all posting on.

 

Declaring something a 'right' does not make it so just as calling ObamaCare 'the affordable care act did not make it affordable.

You confuse labeling with reality

 

And for that to happen there has to be an agreement, perhaps with the insurance companies, that they will pay all this R&D costs. Maybe the gov't gives some subsidies to the insurance companies. I don't know.

 

You followed me son. Healthcare can be a right. All we have to do is declare it is one

- - - Updated - - -

As I pointed out the supreme court declared education a right. Voting has also been declared a right. Healthcare is next

 

There are such things as legal rights. They're entitlements. Moral rights are also entitlements, but they're necessarily just. Legal rights are not necessarily just, but they do exist as entitlements just like your rights to all the property you own, which you acquired when you bought the stuff.

 

Legal right is all that matters under the law.

 

Healthcare is a defensible logical and Constitutional right. It just isn't a lawful right yet because it has not been lawfully declared as such yet.

 

So much distinction without a difference. Such petty hair-splitting is the domain of those who seek to construct a plausible argument to support their unpopular and biased views. The real questions are what does society need/want, and what methods for obtaining those things are most beneficial to society.

 

The creation of a 'Right' seems to involve our black robed masters. Don't you mean when the Supremes declare it a right? I mean after all, they discovered a right to abortion from 'penumbras' and 'emanations'. The Supremes can have a mind fart at any moment and declare a Horse a God!

Don't make it so.

 

What matters under the law is decided at trial, by humans. Humans are moral agents. Morality is the root of law and influences even fiat law at the point of application. Since human morality was all there was to guide Common Law and Civil Law which is what governs most interactions of normal people in the US, natural rights matter a great deal under the law.

 

Tell that to the folk who made my phone and loaded it with a ton of crap I cannot remove...Or the books I 'own' only until the cloud service decides otherwise, or the 'right' to free healthcare for life I earned through decades of military service that became not so 'free' when the government changed its mind.

I don't think you understand the concept of a right. It's only a right when government and companies cannot screw with it for their own enrichment or gain.

 

See the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which the US is a signatory to.

 

What you think is good for society is actually horrible. I'll stick with my accurate distinctions.

 

You're saying you're not entitled to anything you bought? I have some (*)(*)(*)(*) I'd like to sell you then. You can pay me, and, since you're not entitled to anything you buy, I'll just keep all the stuff.

 

[Government's] great contribution to human wisdom...is the discovery that the taxpayer has more than one pocket.
H. L. Mencken

- - - Updated - - -

legal rights can be changed on a whim

- - - Updated - - -

And you have a constitutional argument to back that wild leap of law?

- - - Updated - - -

cannot find that in my pocket Constitution

- - - Updated - - -

sounds like government and taxes

 

That's nice. Legal rights are all that matter under the law

- - - Updated - - -

You are free to philosophize all you want. Legal rights are all that matter under the law

 

Are we supposed to be impressed with your simplistic tautology?

 

No.....just my facts. Lol

 

You know, I take that back. It's not even tautologous. It would be, if it were true, but it's not even close to being true. Many things other than legal rights matter under the law. In systems so dense with precedent as those in the US, where precedent can be found to justify rulings either way on nearly any case, the preferences of those interpreting and applying law matter much more than legal rights. Since those interpreting and applying the law are always human, natural rights matter much more than legal rights. To believe otherwise, one would have to believe that law can be applied objectively and impartially, one would have to believe in the myth of the rule of law.

 

Blah blah blah. A natural right that is not a legal one does nothing. A legal right has the full backing of the government. Time to make healthcare a right

 

Article 25: "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

I'm not sure that such an enlightened attitude flourishes in Sudan or Somalia these days, but anyone who find himself a member of an ethical society from which he feels alienated might wish to give them a try.

 

I don't disagree that people have the right to food (to just give one example) but that doesn't mean I have to pay for someone's food.

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

As noted. If you prefer not to participate in any of the established, shared, ethical imperatives of a society, you are free to withdraw from that society.