Holy sites contraversies

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by WanRen, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. tomteapack

    tomteapack New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, if he had a name, he would have like Popeye, included it.
    I yam what I yam and that is all that I yam, I am Popeye the Sailor Man!!!!
     
  2. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    History books are also full of myths, fables, theories, beliefs, superstitions, violent, ignorant mid-Eastern, European, Asian, African, American tribes that were call SAVAGES and BARBARIANS.

    The Bible teaches that these SAVAGES and BARBARIANS need to learn about God and they did and they prosper where history books failed to do so.
     
  3. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Same with history books, that is why the Saudis have their own account of history, the Persians, Japanese, Americans, English, Israel, Egyptians, Greeks, Turks etc. etc. all have their own accounts of history.

    Did you know that many nations account the origin of their civilization was evolved from dragons, moon, sun etc. basically have nothing to do with the Bible obviously.while the history of Israel start with Isaac all the way to King David....Babylonian exile, Persian invasion, Macedonian invasion, war with the Philistines, Roman conquest, destruction of Jerusalem, expulsion of all Jews from Palestine etc. etc.
     
  4. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    Same thing.
     
  5. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    So, the Bible and history books including scientific books are all fiction to you???, I guess that is why we have education so that people can read and write and understand that those books contain valuable informations about facts and about history.
     
  6. tomteapack

    tomteapack New Member Past Donor

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    history books do NOT claim the myths and superstitions of Savage and ignorant tribes from around the world are FACT, only religions and their believers do that. By the way, all those loverly savages and barbarians were MURDERED in the millions by those good Christian bringing Hypocrites with their religion.
     
  7. tomteapack

    tomteapack New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, all nations have their myths and superstitions, but only religious nuts claim they are fact.
     
  8. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that most of the Christian churches in Jerusalem and many other cities and holy sites were build on top of Jewish and Muslim sites right?
     
  9. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    The Bible don't either that is why after the arrival of Jesus Christ all the SAVAGEs and BARBARIANS started to convert and leave their fables and mythic history behind. At the same time it took a long and hard time to convert those SAVAGES many Christians were massacre by the BARBARIANS and VIKINGS it only stop after they started to settle down and embrace Christianity.

    It is known as the DRAK AGES that era was mark with the fall of Western Roman empire the empire was ravage by barbarians, the British Island will be attack and raided contineously by raiders call Vikings mthousands of civilians, monks and women and children were not spare, so again don't skip your history history did not start with Christian armies massacring savages, remember that.
     
  10. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    You realise that Muslim or Islam came 600 years after Christianity and that Christian churches were already in existance 600 years before the arrival of Islam, right.

    Christian did not build over the Temple Mount.
     
  11. tomteapack

    tomteapack New Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, but, Jesus, God, Hell, Satan, Heaven, etc are ALL just religious myths, just like Zeus, Apollo, Shiva and Allah.
     
  12. tomteapack

    tomteapack New Member Past Donor

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    Wowl One place the Christians did not build on top of another religion, that leaves only 76,987 where they did.
     
  13. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    It's the ultimate humiliation for followers of differing religions, apart from slaying and torturing them, which Christians have also been good at.
     
  14. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    what were the crusades?


    how about reading a bit

    In 363, Emperor Julian II, on his way to engage Persia, stopped at the ruins of the Second Temple in Jerusalem. Julian granted the Jews permission to begin rebuilding the Temple.[17] To Christians, the destroyed Temple was a symbol of Christianity's triumph over Judaism, and Julian, was an opponent of Christianity.[17] Rebuilding work began, but was ended by the Galilee earthquake of 363
     
  15. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    I don't know what history or religious books you are reading but from I understand you are saying or implying that the Christian crusade started way before Islam, well you are wrong the crusade was the result of Muslim attacks against Christian the first crusade was in the 9th century 300 years after the founding of Islam.


    That article was very clear, a Christian emperor who allowed the Jews to rebuild their temple.
     
  16. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Ah yes, this mean that Mohammed is a myth, Caesar is a myth, King David, King Solomon, Xerxes of Persia, Genghis Khan, Pontius Pilate, WWII didn't happen, holocaust was a myth, etc.

    It's a good thing I am an educated man.

    Wow, 76, 987 Jewish sites that's a lot I guess technically there was no vacant space available for Christians to build their churches.
     
  17. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    i didnt say the crusades were before islam, i was pointing out that christians took over the mount and rebuilt upon it, multiple times.

    Just nothing as lasting as the DOME (superior construction is why it still stands)

    but an FYI .....Crusaders lived in it.


    i understand that

    But to further, jews and muslim fought side by side against then crusaders.

    sure...... but also be clear, its destruction was a symbol of judaisms' loss to christianity

    then the sweet-heart muslims allowed the jews to return
     
  18. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    The Christians try to rebuild the Temple Mount by building a church in accordance to the Old Testament, you see Christians recognize and accept the Old Testament so if any churches are build on Judasim sites are in accordance to the Old Testament. Jews have no problem it will be Judaism who will have a problem because Judaism do not accept the New Testament.

    The Muslim Dome lasted because Islam was able to quickly build a solid structure on top of it and fought to protect it from being destroy of taken down.

    Crusades live on in history and in the hearts of many Christians who understood that at critical times we need to defend our selves and fight a just war.



    Most Jews stayed neutral some would ally with Islam others would ally the crusades.


    Yes, and who destroy it, Muslims destroy it and are preventing both Christians and Judaism from rebuilding the Temple back, Christians and Judaism are both in alliance to try to have the Temple of Solomon rebuild. You see, there are more common ground between Christians and Judaism then there is with Islam, both Judaism and Christian recognize the same Old Testament and the Temple of Solomon is about the Old Testament.
     
  19. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Most Jews along with most Muslims were persecuted and killed while the Christians controlled Jerusalem.

    In fact, is was like this until Salah a-Din captured Jerusalem from the Christians. He gave Jews their rights to live there again.

    In fact, while under Muslim rule Jerusalem was a place for all religions to live peacefully with eachother. When Christians controlled it, they persecuted Muslims and Jews. When Zionists today control it, they persecute Palestinians (and they don't differentiate between Muslim or Christian Palestininans BTW)

    Islam represents the Old Testement as well.

    Somebody needs to do more research I think....
     
  20. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    the crusaders were living in it, not sacraficing lambs on some alter

    jews are people that believe in the "RELIGION" called judaism.

    Torah and OT have no idea NT and christians even exist.

    ie.... judaism is not even relevant of having an opinion on the issue unless you are claiming that perhaps prophecies point to how the 'three horns' fall

    wow...............


    the crusaders lived in it!


    dude, you are falling apart

    they tried to slaughter jews and anything not following their sect.

    muslims and jews were the main target of crusaders

    again, you are lost

    wow.... before islam even came about, the solomons temple was destroyed
    and that WILL NOT HAPPEN.


    any bets?

    the dome is almost 1400 yrs old. It should be a global heritage site just for the structure.

    if the bigots tear it down, you will perhaps see ww3 up close and personal
    quran has the combination of both, within the one book

    the temple of solomon is what zionism is all about

    and if you know the literature, then no one but ONE idiot is to open up 'zion' itself.


    and it aint jesus coming back!

    another? Yes...... but it aint jesus!


    I would love to see the look on your face on 'the day' you wake up
     
  21. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    The Jews help the Arab-Muslims to defeat the Persians and supposedly in return they were to get their country Israel back but it didn't happen instead they were allowed to re-enter Jerusalem as subjects of the new Muslim rulers and to pay high taxes.

    So is the nature of warfare, when Islam was expanding Mohammed and his succeeding generals gave the conquer people three choices (1) convert to Islam and enjoy all the economic and social benefits of being Muslim, (2) do not convert pay high tax, stay within reservation, do not expand their religion and way of life ( in other word slow death ) (3) war die by the sword of Islam.
    Several tribes were subsequently slaughter for choosing # 3

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqEovnetLFo&feature=channel_video_title"]The Sins of Saladin During the Crusades - YouTube[/ame]

    It was due to this oppression that gave birth to the crusade, in fact the 1st crusade of 1096-1099 was prompted by the massacre of 3000+ Christian Pilgrams in Jerusalem.

    The 2nd crusade of 1147-1149 was caused by the fall and massacre of the city Edessa. It was taken by the Turkish-Muslims, and they slaughtered the entire population.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqEovnetLFo&feature=channel_video_title"]The Sins of Saladin During the Crusades - YouTube[/ame]

    When the crusades arrive in Jerusalem they showed no mercy Christians, Jews and Muslims were kill as enemy combatant, collaborators, supporters of the enemy. Years later with Jerusalem under Christian control, Muslims, Jews and other Christian sects started to settle in and their religious rights were partially respected.

    When Jerusalem fell back to Muslim control, religious freedom was continue under the new Muslim rulers. It did not last long soon the succeeding rulers from Egypt started to impose restrictions to Jews and Christians. In 1099, The Fatimid ruler expelled the native Christian population before Jerusalem was conquered by the Crusaders.

    Today, present day Muslim countries have demonstrated their intolerance against none Muslims.
     
  22. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    You're a fool like the person in that videos.

    When the Christians came into Jerusalem, they slaughtered nearly everybody. Men, women, children. They spilled countless blood. There was no Christians slaughtered because yes, they were expelled. But it's quite obvious why every Christian was expelled when a group of Christian Crusaders were on their way to Jerusalem.

    Anyway, the Christians massacred everybody. Nearly the whole city. Covered in blood and dead bodies.

    What did Salah ad-Din do when he conquered Jerusalem. Didn't hurt a soul. Didn't kill any woman or child. He allowed them all safe passage away from Jerusalem. The Christians. The same people who massacred countless Muslims and Jews were allowed to walk away, some paying money for it, some for free. It's speaks for itself what kind of a man Salah ad-Din was. And he was well respected, even to this day, and admired for the kind of man he was.
     
  23. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, that is what happen and Christian historians including me does not deny that it happened, unlike Islamic historians and their supporters such as you, they deny any atrocities or brutality committed while they are spreading Islam and that is the big difference Christianity have not censored their history while Islam has.

    The history of Islam still exist up to this date a clear evidence of what Islam is all about, is it tolerant like what Muslims and their supporters claim it is?, No it is not we don't have to go out of the Middle East to see what Islam is we just have to stay within the historical birth of Islam and to its surrounding areas and the evidence of Islamic brutality, backwardness and intolerance is very obvious in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Qatar, Dubai etc. Especially their policy to destroy Israel and restore Jerusalem to Islamic control.

    No better and stronger proof than looking at Islam today.

    It was due to this oppression that gave birth to the crusade, in fact the 1st crusade of 1096-1099 was prompted by the massacre of 3000+ Christian Pilgrams in Jerusalem.

    The 2nd crusade of 1147-1149 was caused by the fall and massacre of the city Edessa. It was taken by the Turkish-Muslims, and they slaughtered the entire population. The Mamluks were one the most brutal Muslim forces.
     
  24. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    People who are biased have no business being a historian.

    I have stepped on your credibility numerous times.


    there is a perfect example of how you work; you claim to know muslims and islam but do not listen or take first hand accounts



    mamluks were hired thugs.

    they were warriors captured from previous campaigns.

    Mixed peoples



    Go lay by your dish!

    Do history on winnie the poo or mary poppins but stay out of theology and ME history

    Maybe you can write about the peaceful, compassion and love of the christians caring for the cold indians by giving blankets to the natives of north america


    People like you are why we have children that LIE!
     
  25. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Wrong, you only prove your own bias by refusing to recognize atrocities committed by Muslims in spreading Islam, I have pointed all the brutality plus the present day Islam is a clear evidence of what Islam was and is, as I have pointed out Islam is not familiar of the word sorry or apologise it is not in their Quran not in their dictionary they justify their atrocities as the fault of the other side, the other side refuse to convert or accept their deal therefore Islam have the right to massacre them. Up to this day, Muslim refuse to recognize their sins against the Armanians.


    Whose first hand accounts, the Islamist. These are the first hand accounts listen and open your eyes, ears and mind:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m95_ReSA5U"]According to NGOs, 90 Percent of Afghan Women Are Abused - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QfkOld4akw&feature=channel_video_title"]CANADIAN FORCES HELP AFGHANS - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgo4aGe1OGc&feature=channel_video_title"]Imam admits - The PENALTY for leaving ISLAM is DEATH - YouTube[/ame]


    Oh, okay so if they are mean and barbaric they are not Muslims, now do you see what you are doing.....refusing and omitting what is. The Mamluks massacre many Christians and Jews and off course Muslims will never want to talk about those.



    Actually I have spoken about that too and the difference by comparing that and Islam is that Christian America have repented and recognize their sins and are now helping the Indians regain their identity and culture. Islam have not done anything like that, they can't even accept the Kurds, the Armenians, the Copts, Christians and most of all Israelis.

    It is only a lie to people who can not accept the truth, Muslims have been deny the truth, that is why Islamic authorities are very restrictive. Muslim kids have been indoctrinated to accept and live a life of lie, that is why many Muslims after finding out the truth have a hard time accepting it they struggle with their conscience and the only way out is to be suicidal.

    Many Muslims are unaware
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgo4aGe1OGc&feature=channel_video_title"]Imam admits - The PENALTY for leaving ISLAM is DEATH - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTlCUqjMtbA&feature=channel_video_title"]Dr. Jasser joined Gretchen Carlson of Fox and Friends to discuss the Muslim arrests in NJ - YouTube[/ame]
     

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