How To Enact Comprehensive Immigration Reform

Well now......

I'd been planning on creating this thread for a while as part of the Ranked Vote Series group of Solutions Oriented Discussion Threads, especially ever since it (immigration) tied for first place in the Nation's Top Issues thread just a little over one week ago. Given recent events though, it certainly is an interesting time to be having this discussion in particular.

....yes......interesting......

Our (U.S.) government has been kicking the can of needed immigration reform down the road since at least about 1998. From 2005-2013 congress tried several times to come to some agreement on immigration and failed every time to come up with anything even remotely approaching a comprehensive solution before ultimately giving up and passing the buck over to our more recent crop of politicians to deal with, who...let's face it, really haven't done much better.

In their defense though, immigration isn't really like most of the other issues we deal with; it is a very complex topic, a lot more-so than it may appear to be on the surface. There are a wide range of different types of immigrants one has to consider...different circumstances... different layers to contemplate... and a wide array of different options for how we deal with them all. Below, I've split the issue up into what I believe to be some of the major focus areas. And individually even they're still pretty broad, one could even take each one and make it its very own topic... but since we are wanting comprehensive immigration reform here, I'm going to try and squeeze discussion on them all down into this single thread...

So now... the question here is what should we as a country do, if anything, about each of these categories? And I wont suggest upon how one should go about answering that, other than to say that in order for a solution to truly be comprehensive, it should come with an answer for most...if not every one...of the categories listed below.

Legend:

red = immigrants who came in and or stayed illegally
green = immigrants seeking to get in legally
purple = documented legal immigrants
blue = non-immigrant people or systems involved in immigration process
​

What should be done about...:

Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In
Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas
Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent
Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In
Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years)
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education
Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Financial Investment
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service
Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service
Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General
Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens
Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees
Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language
Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses
Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses
Immigrants with Violent Offenses
Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
Smugglers of Undocumented Immigrants
Visa Application and Petitioning Process
Immigration and Customs Enforcement
Funding for Immigration Reforms
Border Security
Other​

This is a pretty daunting task, so to make things easier, here's the same list of categories with what the current law/policy says about each. Feel free to copy this to act as a template and edit the parts of our country's immigration stance that you feel needs to change. Who knows... perhaps not much really needs to change from what we have. Maybe we can leave most of the current processes in tact and simply focus on the more problematic areas...

What should be done about...:

Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In: Deported
Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas: Punishment Dependent on Overage, Up To Permanent Ban from U.S. if Over a Year
Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Tender Age Shelter
Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Internment Camp
Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In: Resettled in U.S./(recent) Internment Camp
Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years): N/A
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work: H1B Lottery 85K Annually (Up to 6 year Av. wait)
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education: F1, J1, M1 Visa Programs
Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent: EB1 and EB2 Programs
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Financial Investment: EB5, minimum $500k
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System: 50k Green Cards Annually
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service: 12 years of Service
Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service: Expedited Green Card for Children or Spouse Only
Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General: Spouses, Young Unmarried Children, and Parents
Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens: Max 480K Annually: Spouses, Young Children, Parents + Siblings and Older Children
Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees: Proof of Persecution or Threat of Death in Home Country (Max 26-70K Annually)
/(recent) Turned Away or Deported
Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language: N/A
Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses: If Serious (1 year jail time) or a Felony, then Deported
Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses: Deported
Immigrants with Violent Offenses: Deported
Employers of Undocumented Immigrants: $250-$2,000 Fine Per Undocumented Employee For First Offense
Smugglers of Undocumented Immigrants: Fine + Up to 10 Years (or 20 if anyone is injured) Jail Per Smuggled Person
Visa Application and Petitioning Process: 1-4 Years Av For Employment Based, 1-10 Years For Non-Immediate Family
Immigration and Customs Enforcement: 20K Agents, 226-240K Internal Deportations Annually
Funding for Immigration Reforms: N/A
Border Security: 353 Miles of Primary Fencing, Observation Towers, 20K Patrol Agents
Other: ???​

Also, just because this thread is already likely to branch out in a million different ways as it is, let's say that sub-topics like naturalization and citizenship are out of scope for this discussion. Edit: Actually, changing my mind on this one. If a specific idea involves them, then I think they are fine to be discussed as they relate to that idea, but lets try not to get too far into the weeds. Beyond that, please keep your emotions in check here. I know this is a passionate subject for a lot of folks, but please no name-calling, insults, or any of the rest of it. And as always any discussion of conservative republicans this, or liberal socialist democrats that, etc. etc. is likewise out of bounds for this discussion.

And BTW, as was mentioned at the top of the thread, this issue (immigration) did tie for first place as our nation's number one top national issue most needing to be addressed. In other words, a lot of us here at politicalforum really want our congress to come up with a comprehensive fix to this. We bash them for the perpetual failure to do so. But I wonder, is anyone here actually up to the task of coming up with a comprehensive immigration plan themselves???
....I guess we'll soon find out.

-Meta

​

 

Ideas so Far:

Spoiler: Proposed Changes

Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: CitPath Instant
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: CitPath after 5-7 yr Probat
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: CitPath after 15 yr if Reg w/i 3 mo Else Deported w/Parent
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: CitPath if Reg w/i 3 mo and here for 5+ years. Else Deported w/Parent
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: ResStat after 6 mo if Border Plans and here since 12/31/11
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: ResStat if working else Deported
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: Deported
Undocumented Adult Who Snuck In: Deported and Banned for Life
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: CitPath Instant
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: CitPath after 5-7 yr Probat
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: CitPath after 15 yr if Reg w/I 3 mo Else Deported
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: Deported and Banned for Life if Overage Over a yr
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: Deported regardless of degree
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: Deported regardless of degree and Banned for 3 yr
Visa Holders Who Overstayed: Deported regardless of degree and Banned for Life
Infants Brought by Parent: CitPath Instant
Infants Brought by Parent: CitPath after 5-7 yr Probat
Infants Brought by Parent: CitPath after 15 yr if Reg w/i 3 mo + DNA Testing. Else Deported w/Parent
Infants Brought by Parent: CitPath if Reg w/i 3 mo and here for 5+ years. Else Deported w/Parent
Infants Brought by Parent: ResStat after 6 mo if Border Plans and here since 12/31/11
Infants Brought by Parent: ResStat if parent is working else Deported w/Parent
Infants Brought by Parent: Adoption by U.S. couple or Deported w/Parent. Parent's choice
Infants Brought by Parent: Deported w/Parent
Infants Brought by Parent: Tender Age Shelter
Infants Brought by Parent: Deported
Children Brought by Parent: CitPath Instant
Children Brought by Parent: CitPath after 5-7 yr Probat
Children Brought by Parent: CitPath after 15 yr if Reg w/i 3 mo + DNA Testing. Else Deported
Children Brought by Parent: CitPath if Reg w/i 3 mo and here for 5+ years. Else Deported w/Parent
Children Brought by Parent: ResStat after 6 mo if Border Plans and here since 12/31/11
Children Brought by Parent: ResStat if parent is working else Deported w/Parent
Children Brought by Parent: ResStat. Citizenship granted after 4 yr military
Children Brought by Parent: Deported w/Parent
Children Brought by Parent: Internment Camp
Children Brought by Parent: Deported
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: CitPath Instant
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: CitPath after 5-7 yr Probat
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: CitPath after 15 yr if Reg w/i 3 mo. Else Deported
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: CitPath if Reg w/i 3 mo and here for 5+ years. Else Deported
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: ResStat + Resettled in U.S.
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: ResStat after 6 mo if Border Plans and here since 12/31/11
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: ResStat if parent is working else Deported
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: ResStat. Citizenship granted after 4 yr military
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: Internment Camp
Unaccompanied Child Who Snuck In: Deported
Dreamers: CitPath Instant
Dreamers: CitPath after 5-7 yr Probat
Dreamers: CitPath and GrCard if Reg w/i 3 mo
Dreamers: CitPath after 15 yr if Reg w/i 3 mo
Dreamers: ResStat and GrCard + Documentation
Dreamers: ResStat. Citizenship granted after 4 yr military or CitPath if obtaining skills to do a job/enrolled in K-12
Dreamers: ResStat if here since 12/31/13 and in school/military/employed. Citizenship after 5 years
Dreamers: ResStat if working
Dreamers: Case by Case Basis
Dreamers: Deported
ResStat if U.S. company pledges to employ immigrant for 5 or more years
Raise H1B Cap (110K Temp Workers per yr). Further raises possible dependent on demand (up to 180K per Year)
Raise H1B Cap (110-180K Temp Workers per Year). Make it a first come first serve waiting list instead of a lottery
Add 25K H1B set asides for immigrants w/high value advanced degrees
Crack down on companies who train workers in the U.S. and then ship them back over seas to work
Keep H1B Program as is (85K Temp Workers per yr)
End H1B Temporary Work Visa Program
Keep Educational Visa Programs as is
Exempt Educational Visa Holders from Green Card Limits if grad+STEM degree&job offer
Keep Exceptional Talent Visa Program as is
Exempt Exceptional Talent Visa Holders from Green Card Limits
Keep Permanent Visa Lottery Program as is (50K GrCards per year)
End Permanent Visa Lottery Program
Automatic Citizenship if Immigrant Involved in Combat Situation while serving U.S. Military
Change to 7 years of Militarily Service instead of 12 for GrCard
Keep Military Visa Program as is (GrCard after 12 yr service)
Exempt Children/Spouses of Military Members from Immigration Limits
Expedited Green Cards for Children or Spouses Only for Military Members
Exempt Children/Spouses/Parents of Legal Immigrants from Immigration Limits
GrCards for Spouses, Young Unmarried Children, and Parents of Legal Immigrants
GrCards for Spouses and Young Unmarried Children only of Legal Immigrants. No more Parents
Exempt Children/Spouses/Parents of Citizens from Immigration Limits. No more Siblings or Married Children over 30
GrCards for Spouses, Young Unmarried Children, and Parents + Siblings and Older Children of Citizens (Max 480K per yr)
GrCards for Spouses and Young Unmarried Children only of Citizens (Max 480K per yr). No more Parents or Siblings
CitPath Instant for Asylum Seekers/Refugees
CitPath after 7 yr Probat for Asylum Seekers/Refugees
Require Asylum/Refugee Applications be made in writing from country of origin
Asylum Seekers/Refugees Must Obtain and Keep Employment to Stay, Else Deported
Asylum Seekers/Refugees Should be Turned Away
Asylum Seekers/Refugees Should be Deported
Asylum Seekers/Refugees Should be sent to Internment Camps
Don't Require Immigrants to Learn/Speak English
Immigrants Who Haven't Assimilated English Not Allowed to Apply for Green Card
Immigrants who break law. If Serious (i.e. 1 yr jail) or Felony, Deported after time served
Immigrants who break law. If Serious (i.e. 1 yr jail) or Felony/multi minor violations (e.g. 3+), Deported after time served
Immigrants who break law. If Class A Misdemeanor or above then Deported
Immigrants who break law. Deported No Prison or Appeals Procedures
Immigrants who break law. Deported Regardless of Degree and Banned from Reentry
Immigrants who commit drug crime. Deported after time served
Immigrants who commit drug crime. Deported No Prison or Appeals Procedures
Immigrants who commit violent crime. Deported after time served
Immigrants who commit violent crime. Deported No Prison or Appeals Procedures
$250-$2,000 Fine Per Undocumented Employee For First Offense for Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
All Employers Required to Utilize e-Verify System
Regulatory division tasked with yearly random checks in industries w/history of employing undocumented immigrants
Stiffer penalties (>$2k fine per employee/jail time) + more rigorous enforcement for Employers of Undocumented Immigrants
$4 billion new spending to streamline Visa Application and Petitioning Process
Streamline Visa Application and Petitioning Process for immigrants if U.S. company pledges to employ for 5 or more years
Keep Visa Application and Petitioning Process as is ( 1-4 yr Employment Based else 1-10)
Add 165 new immigration judges and 69 attorneys over 3 yr to reduce backlogs
Training and Technology Improvements to Increase Court/Processing Efficiency
Immigrants caught at/near border simply escorted to other side rather than extended detention and deportation process
Keep ICE as is (20K Agents, 226-240K Internal Deportations Annually)
Abolish ICE
Comprehensive border strategy+Increased CBP Ops and Drone Usage at the borders
$550M allocation to increase coordination between CBP and state and local law enforcement at the borders
Pay-fors should be included within the legislation
Income tax increase included as part of legislation to pay for reforms
Leave Pay-fors Out of legislation
$46 billion new spending to improve border security
Increase # of Border Agents to min of 38,405
Add roughly 350 new Miles of border Fencing for a total of 700 Miles
Add More towers, cameras, ground sensors, radiation detectors, drones, other aircraft, ships, and radars on the borders
Add New Ports of Entry along the borders. Expanded inspection lanes at high volume southern border ports of entry
Ensure Constant surveillance of borders using combination of tech + manpower. Should be well-funded and capable
Keep border security as is (353 Miles of Primary Fencing, Observation Towers, 20K Patrol Agents)
Build a Wall
Parole board hearing for immigrants with upstanding citizens from the local community the immigrants want to reside in
Non-citizens who commit felony, theft, assault, or fraud during probationary period deported and banned from reentry
Amend 14th amendment, require legal guardian to be citizen for citizenship to be automatic at birth
Amend 14th amendment, require legal guardian to be citizen/GrCard Holder/PermResident for citizenship to be automatic at birth
End Sanctuary Cities
Pull Federal Funding from Sanctuary Cities until they dissolve their sanctuary status
$4K per day Fine per protected immigrant on cities declaring themselves as sanctuary cities
$250-$2,000 Fine for anybody who registers a car to an undocumented immigrant
$250-$2,000 Fine for anybody who provides day care services to an undocumented immigrant
$4K per day Fine per immigrant on businesses that allow undocumented immigrants to panhandle outside
Legal Immigrants should be afforded a fast track to citizenship
Dreamers not already applied for citizenship given a 6 month Visa and Deported if they have not applied after the 6 months
Do a Deal w/Mexico to Create Emergency Shelters for Immigrants. Half in Mexico Half in U.S.
Do a Deal w/Mexico to agree on how many asylum seekers/refugees each country should accept
Provide Financial and Other Aid to Mexico and South American Countries to Help them Improve their Countries
Streamline legal process to more quickly reject immigrants who aren't proper asylum seekers
Put More Pressure on Mexico to Accept Immigrants Rather than Passing Along to U.S. Border
Provide Financial and Other Aid to Mexico to Help them Improve their Country
Compulsory Voter ID Program
Coordination of efforts to strengthen rule of law and economic prosperity in Central America
Make it widely known in South American that just turning up at the border will no longer be allowed
Make the new policies widely known in Mexico and South America
e-verify system for all employers within 4 years of enactment. Non-citizens must show photo id to become employed
System for tracking people leaving airports/seaports
Creation of Southern Border Security Commission if 90% border effectiveness is not achieved within 5 years
Require Immigrants first pay $500 fine before being granted a 6 yr Provisional ResStat Renewable for additional $500
Immigrants with Provisional ResStat allowed to work and travel in U.S. but are not eligible for federal benefits
After 10 Years Provisional ResStat immigrant who's learned English and payed all taxes can apply for Green Card for $1000
New Startup Visa program implemented for foreign entrepreneurs wanting to start a company in the U.S.
New Point-Based Merit Visa program implemented for education, employment, length of residence etc. Max 250K per Year
New Work Visa program for immigrants wanting to work in construction, long-term care, hospitality etc. Max 200K per Year
New Agriculture Work Visa Program
Agriculture workers who've worked in the industry at least 2 yr, qualify for Green Cards in another 5 years if they stay in the industry
Reinstate the Family Case Management Program
New Volunteer-Based Merit Visa program. For immigrants who work 12 years in approved orgs to improve aspects of home country
Adult Immigrants caught sneaking in who arrive in U.S. after enactment should be deported, added to a list, & banned for life
Public Works program for U.S. citizens and prospective immigrant volunteers to improve struggling areas in Mexico/South America
Create a task force to assist Mexican law enforcement in combating crime
Create a separate task force for combating crime in South American countries
For GrCard, non-dreamer undocumented immigrants must first pay $1.5K fine and serve 4 yr in military, get high-value STEM degree, or be employed 15 yr
Require children and parents always kept together, either deported immediately, released on bond w/ankle bracelet, or detained together in appropriate facility

 

No Takers?

 

Thanks for the feedback! And yeah, this is definitely a polarizing issue.
Though both sides ought to at least have some idea of what they want....right?

Imo, given the complexity of this issue, I don't think we should focus too much on trying to find perfect compromise solutions to start with. Things will likely become way convoluted way fast. Instead, I think the best approach is for 'the sides' to clearly define what their position is as to their ideal set up. As much as people have talked about this issue, that's something I haven't really seen much of yet, at least not on a comprehensive level. Bits and pieces get discussed, but not many seem to take into account the fuller picture. Politicians occasionally try to take the bits and make a compromise with them...sometimes they get close, but not considering the big picture is probably one of the reasons they fail. And I think that folks on message boards like these/average citizens are even worse than they are about only looking at a small piece of the issue at a time.

If we can consider what we want individually for each category though, I think we'll have more success while also coming to understand the various intricacies of the issue better. And after positions have been clearly defined, we can define intermediate positions, and after that, it'll then be much easier to compromise.

But again, my feeling is that defining what our ideal set up is should come first.
Surely those on the 'anti-immigration side' aren't against every single immigration category listed in the OP...are they?....
Or are they??....And even if they are, I still wonder what their positions would be on the blue categories.
And how 'bout you? Any ideas for what the ideal should be? What changes do you think we should make, if any, to what's listed in the status quo table in the OP?

-Meta

 

Well Trump seems to have backed down on that particular front...or at least so he says.
I do believe that a lot of the problem here stems from the mire of confusion that surrounds an issue like this.
And that confusion can easily lead to people making decisions based only on pure emotions rather than on fact-based logic.
If ANGER and OUTRAGE rule the day on either side, its no wonder nothing ever gets done.
And I agree with you that there are likely forces out there who actively perpetuate that confusion and emotion to further their own goals.

If we don't want those malicious actors to get their way, it is important for us to eliminate confusion by clearly defining things.
We can't just aimlessly discuss the issue all willy-nilly, we need to be direct and focused, and of course, comprehensive in discussing,
not only the problems...but the solutions as well.
Me also mustn't get discouraged by the difficulty of the issue or rely solely on others (politicians) to solve the issue for us. If we, the rank and file citizens, do not start putting forth more of an effort to understand and come up with solutions ourselves, then things are not likely to get better any time soon.

-Meta

 

Like I was saying before, to start off, I do not think we should focus right away on coming up with perfect consensus solutions. The thing is...it seems to me that there are quite a lot of people who aren't very well versed in all the different facets of the issue, some who aren't aware of what our current policies are, and more still who don't seem to have any idea of what they themselves want to change...at least not so much as to be able to define it in any concrete way. We as a nation are basically just running off those emotions right now.
We aren't stopping to think things through...

And trying to compromise when you don't even know what you want, let-alone what the other side wants, is nothing if not a recipe for disaster.

So again, before we try to come to any agreement, we need to identify and clearly define what our own positions are.
Only then can we begin to look for ways to move towards one another.

So what exactly is your position on this matter? In your personal ideal view...without consideration for compromise,
what parts of that status quo table in the OP would you change, and how, in order to improve our immigration system???

-Meta

 

So then, how do the various parts of the system need to change in order to improve things?

-Meta

 

I agree, this recent turn of events, whatever you call it, is very ugly to watch. I don't think that simply relying on "smart people" to fix the issues in our stead is the right move here though. We've sat back and watched "smart people" try to fix the issues in the past and to this day it hasn't worked out. If we truly want things to be fixed, then regular everyday Americans are going to have to start taking a more active role in things. At a minimum, folks ought to at least do their part to understand the broad intricacies of the problem.

BTW, I think that you underestimate your own ability. I know its a bit intimating, but I'm sure that you're more than capable of staking a position on the categories in the OP. Just take each item one by one. There are several which pose pretty clear issues. Some of the items have no current policy. Others have policy which varies or is indefinite. Consider whether there are better options out there for replacing those problematic ones. And if not, its perfectly fine to say that we should just keep what we have for a lot of them. I plan to go through the same exercise a bit latter myself.

Spoiler

Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In: Deported
Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas: Punishment Dependent on Overage, Up To Permanent Ban from U.S. if Over a Year
Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Tender Age Shelter
Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Internment Camp
Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In: Resettled in U.S./(recent) Internment Camp
Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years): N/A
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work: H1B Lottery 85K Annually (Up to 6 year Av. wait)
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education: F1, J1, M1 Visa Programs
Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent: EB1 and EB2 Programs
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Financial Investment: EB5, minimum $500k
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System: 50k Green Cards Annually
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service: 12 years of Service
Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service: Expedited Green Card for Children or Spouse Only
Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General: Spouses, Young Unmarried Children, and Parents
Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens: Max 480K Annually: Spouses, Young Children, Parents + Siblings and Older Children
Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees: Proof of Persecution or Threat of Death in Home Country (Max 26-70K Annually)
/(recent) Turned Away or Deported
Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language: N/A
Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses: If Serious (1 year jail time) or a Felony, then Deported
Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses: Deported
Immigrants with Violent Offenses: Deported
Employers of Undocumented Immigrants: $250-$2,000 Fine Per Undocumented Employee For First Offense
Smugglers of Undocumented Immigrants: Fine + Up to 10 Years (or 20 if anyone is injured) Jail Per Smuggled Person
Visa Application and Petitioning Process: 1-4 Years Av For Employment Based, 1-10 Years For Non-Immediate Family
Immigration and Customs Enforcement: 20K Agents, 226-240K Internal Deportations Annually
Funding for Immigration Reforms: N/A
Border Security: 353 Miles of Primary Fencing, Observation Towers, 20K Patrol Agents
Other: ???​

-Meta

 

You are the first poster who has offered up any sort of course of action in this thread. Congrats!
I highlighted your suggested changes in the list in bright red.
Some of it was the same as current policy, which I did not highlight.
And BTW, I didn't note it in the og table, but I'm pretty sure immigrants deported for a drug or violent offense are already banned from reentry.

Also...by Illegals, I assumed you mean any immigrant in the country breaking or who has broken immigration law, including unaccompanied minors and Dreamers. For the lottery system though, were you talking about the H1B program for temporary seasonal work, the Permanent Visa lottery, or both? Also, with these changes, are you also good with us keeping everything else in the list the way it is?

I also assumed you'd be against letting in asylum seekers...
Correct me if wrong.

Also also, citizenship is outside the scope of this discussion.
Were you talking about green cards instead?
Atm, I haven't highlighted anything specifically with regards to that.
Again, correct me if wrong.

Spoiler: Belch's Proposed Changes

Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In: Deported
Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas: Deported Regardless of Degree and Banned from Reentry
Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Tender Age Shelter
Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Internment Camp
Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In: Deported
Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years): N/A
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work: Cancel Program?
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education: F1, J1, M1 Visa Programs
Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent: EB1 and EB2 Programs
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Financial Investment: EB5, minimum $500k
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System: Cancel Program?
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service: 12 years of Service
Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service: Expedited Green Card for Children or Spouse Only
Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General: Spouses, Young Unmarried Children, and Parents
Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens: Max 480K Annually: Spouses, Young Children, Parents + Siblings and Older Children
Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees: Turned Away or Deported
Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language: N/A
Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses: Deported Regardless of Degree and Banned from Reentry
Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses: Deported
Immigrants with Violent Offenses: Deported
Employers of Undocumented Immigrants: $250-$2,000 Fine Per Undocumented Employee For First Offense
Smugglers of Undocumented Immigrants: Fine + Up to 10 Years (or 20 if anyone is injured) Jail Per Smuggled Person
Visa Application and Petitioning Process: 1-4 Years Av For Employment Based, 1-10 Years For Non-Immediate Family
Immigration and Customs Enforcement: 20K Agents, 226-240K Internal Deportations Annually
Funding for Immigration Reforms: N/A
Border Security: 353 Miles of Primary Fencing, Observation Towers, 20K Patrol Agents
Other: ???​

-Meta

 

Oh, and what's your view on the whole Tender Age Shelter/Internment Camp thing?
Should we keep doing that? Or should we deport the children with their parents instead? Or something else?

-Meta

 

Hmm, that sounds a lot like what we already have, with only a few differences...
So I take it then that your proposed solution would look something like the following?
Assuming that you'd be for Deporting Dreamers and Visa Overstays...
Or would Dreamers who registered with authorities count as legal?
Would you suggest any alterations to the blue section?
Or would you leave the other categories as they are now?

And what is your view on the whole Tender Age Shelter/Internment Camp thing?
Should we keep doing that? Should we go back to deporting the children with their parents? Or something else?

(changes highlighted in bright red)

Spoiler: doombug's Proposed Changes

Adult Undocumented Illegal Immigrants Who Sneak In: Deported
Visa Holders Who Overstay Their Visas: Deported Regardless of Degree
Infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Tender Age Shelter
Non-infant Children Who Immigrate Unlawfully with Parent: Deported With Parent/(recent) Internment Camp
Unaccompanied Undocumented Children Who Sneak In: Deported
Dreamers (Brought as kids who lived in U.S. for many years): Deported
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work: H1B Lottery 85K Annually (Up to 6 year Av. wait)
Immigrants Seeking Temporary Student Visa for Education: F1, J1, M1 Visa Programs
Immigrants Seeking Merit-based Visa for Exceptional Talent: EB1 and EB2 Programs
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Financial Investment: EB5, minimum $500k
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Lottery System: 50k Green Cards Annually
Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via Military Service: 12 years of Service
Family Members of Immigrants in Military Service: Expedited Green Card for Children or Spouse Only
Family Members of Legal Immigrants in General: Spouses, Young Unmarried Children, and Parents
Family Members of Permanent U.S. Citizens: Max 480K Annually: Spouses, Young Children, Parents + Siblings and Older Children
Legal Asylum Seekers/Refugees: Proof of Persecution or Threat of Death in Home Country (Max 26-70K Annually)
/(recent) Turned Away or Deported
Immigrants who Haven't Yet Assimilated the English Language: N/A
Immigrants with Non-violent Non-drug-related Offenses: If Serious (1 year jail time) or a Felony, then Deported
Immigrants with Non-violent Drug-related Offenses: Deported
Immigrants with Violent Offenses: Deported
Employers of Undocumented Immigrants: $250-$2,000 Fine Per Undocumented Employee For First Offense
Smugglers of Undocumented Immigrants: Fine + Up to 10 Years (or 20 if anyone is injured) Jail Per Smuggled Person
Visa Application and Petitioning Process: 1-4 Years Av For Employment Based, 1-10 Years For Non-Immediate Family
Immigration and Customs Enforcement: 20K Agents, 226-240K Internal Deportations Annually
Funding for Immigration Reforms: N/A
Border Security: 353 Miles of Primary Fencing, Observation Towers, 20K Patrol Agents
Other: ???​

-Meta

 

Hmm.....

Well what if I asked you just one or a few questions at a time?
Would that help??

Our current policy on undocumented adults who sneak into the country is that they are deported. Do you think that should change?
Until recently, the children of such undocumented adults if brought in toe were deported along with the parent.
Now they are being sent to Internment Camps or Tender Age Shelters depending on age. What do you think is the correct action to take here?

-Meta

 

Well, at least as far as policalforum membership sees it, Immigration is actually this nation's number one top issue needing to be addressed with no other issue being above it in priority. So I doubt that folks wouldn't want to see the issue resolved even if others have to wait. That said...this thread is supposed to be about comprehensive immigration reform... if you truly think that the issue can't be fully resolved before some domestic situation is fixed, then perhaps that domestic item ought to be a part of the comprehensive immigration solution.

-Meta

 

Does this mean that you think Dreamers who've gotten in touch with authorities and had their background checks applications etc. should be allowed to stay? What about Green Cards?

Also, I'm still a bit confused about what your position is regarding what to do about Immigrants Seeking Temporary Work Visa for Seasonal Work Via the H1B Lottery System and Immigrants Seeking Permanent Visa Via the other Visa Lottery System. And still curious too what your view is on the whole Tender Age Shelter/Internment Camp thing?

But even if you can't answer those, I still think what you provided already is pretty good as far as solid well defined positions go. And BTW, I was thinking about what you mentioned early, and I changed my mind about making Citizenship discussion out of bounds. I do hope things don't go too far down that route, but at the same time I do want to make sure this thread is as open as possible for different ideas to come in.

Ah, thanks for the clarification on that one.
There is currently a ceiling on the number of asylum seekers let in each year,
and like you were saying, proof of persecution is required in order to be eligible.
I don't think a job is a current requirement, so that'd be one change from what we have.
Generally, the number for the ceiling is anywhere between 26-70K. The exact number for the ceiling is decided upon and set by the president on a yearly basis. The ceiling is not always met, but usually number admitted comes pretty close (within 15K).
Do you believe the numbers admitted should be lower than this?

-Meta