How willing are you to bankrupt America?

Discussion in 'Finance' started by Robert, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You think *I'm* trying to live off the backs of the rich? LOL. Do you usually talk **** about things you know nothing about?

    It shows.
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not aware that it passed and was overturned, so you may have to fill me in on that, but the last time it came up in the House, Ryan voted against it.

    https://paulryan.house.gov/legislation/kvr/2011bba.htm
     
  3. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand your frustration with Congress. I have sent letters to Congress, and all I ever get in return are polite form letters that totally ignore my ideas and, instead, tell me what my member of congress has been doing lately.

    Deficit spending is like a drug for Congress. Both sides are addicted to it. The only way we will ever get spending reform is to force the voters to pay for our spending. To do that, taxes would have to be raised. And as soon as they raised taxes on the public to pay for our spending, there would be real pressure to control spending. But Democrats are not interested in lowering spending, so they don't really want to raise taxes. (They say they do, but they don't.) Republicans talk about decreasing spending, but, in the end, they never do. And they refuse to raise taxes, just like the Democrats. So, both sides are content to continue the deficit spending.

    Both sides are a part of the same hypocrisy, in my opinion.
     
  4. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Donor

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    How willing are you to bankrupt America?

    Morally or financially?

    Morally, we are pretty much already there and it is flowing downhill from the top.
    Financially, If Trump gets his budget.....well, we get screwed there as well.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Yes, they both are. There are so many views by congress I hesitate to catalog them all into several factions, but in general, you nailed it. But the congress is not about to make us pay. So we will still have this problem in 50 years a hundred more. .
     
    Seth Bullock likes this.
  6. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    By giving the public more tax savings? Which is what higher deductions will do.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  8. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    If you supported Trump's debt-funded tax cut you certainly don't support a balanced budget amendment. We have a 900 trillion dollar deficit under Trump and to eliminate it immediately would cause a recession because it essentially contracts the economy by 900 billion dollars. Its best to do this gradually. For example we can say that all bills have have an immediate balanced budget impact and pay for themselves. We can exclude times of recession and war.

    This won't completely eliminate the deficit but it will slow the rise. Maybe we can even take this further and require that all bills and budgets reduce the deficit by a certain amount.
     
  9. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

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    https://www.gobankingrates.com/net-worth/bankruptcy/us-cities-bankrupt/#4

    click view all to bring up the list and notice that of the 20 places it's almost ALL Democrat cities or they were Democrat when they went bankrupt/got into financial trouble.

    This PROVES how Democrats feel about bankruptcy.

    TBF not all the cities are down to mismanagement and back handed corruption just the majority of them.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The last version of the BBA that was shot down had a 5 year timeline from ratification until implementation, so it seems there would have been several years to prepare.

    Anyway the most likely scenario is massive tax increases to cover the difference. I'm sure you think that would be great for the economy.
     
  11. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    A massive tax increase isn't likely with Republicans controlling the house and senate. The most likely event is that nothing that increases spending or cutting taxes will be passed until people can figure out spending cuts we can make.
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Republicans are not going to be in power forever. In fact, It will probably be tough going for them after 2020. So arguing about what the Republicans are going to do for something that couldn't happen for years is irrelevant. However there will be a Congress that will have to react to a BBA (assuming one passed).
     
  13. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    My prediction is that the Republicans will lose the house and senate in 2020. So I guess a tax increase is possible. But I also see a recession coming on and democrats don't like raising taxes during bad times. Democrats won't raise taxes on the middle class and will only raise them on the rich which will give them limited revenue. Therefore if my balanced budget amendment was passed spending increases are limited as well.
     
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Trump's debt continues to grow ever larger:


    http://www.usdebtclock.org/


    Forum Republicans need to tell him to stop screwing up the nation's future.
     
  15. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the problem with your plan is only about half of the workforce are net taxpayers....the other half represent a considerable drain on the federal fisc.

    the way to get spending under control is to make everyone invest in the success of our country.....and the best way to do that is to eliminate the unconstitutional progressive tax system (14A's equal protections clause) and institute a flat 17% to 19% consumption tax. If everyone had some skin in the game, they'd demand fiscal accountability from the clowns in DC...they'd really scrutinize any spending and tax hike proposals. which is precisely why the clowns in DC will never agree to it.
     
  16. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

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    The debt went out of control under Reagan and then Bush. Obama added 8 trillion to the debt which is being ignored by people who want it to be Trump's debt.

    It's not Trumps debt, it's not even Obama's debt or Bush jr or Clinton. You could argue that the debt was an unwillingness to compromise by both sides and excessive partisanship on both sides for over 2 decades making it impossible to balance the budget.

    Both Republicans and Democrats are responsible and the only way to balance this deficit are hard choices. US population has grown from 200 million to 300 million in the last 40 years it's really not surprising the debt went out of control.

    With Open borders it'll be 500,000,000 in another 2 decades and the US will be totally bankrupt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  17. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US has added roughly 50 million hispanics since 1950. I'm not blaming the debt bomb on hispanics...they're going to take advantage of the situation like most people from impoverished, dangerous, terribly governed* third world shitholes would... but when you establish an overly benevolent on-demand Welfare State, as was done in the mid-sixties, and then basically turn a blind eye (and even actively lure them here with amnesty, DACA, Dreamer, Sanctuary City rhetoric) to the hordes of impoverished hispanics illegally entering the country (to ultimately have millions of welfare-social infrastructure qualified Anchor Babies) for the next 50 years, spending, deficits and debt are going rise (as planned? Cloward-Piven?)

    * they can't govern their own countries for sh-t, but America will benefit greatly from their presence. uh huh...
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    If the Democrats take back the House and Senate in 2020, I would say a tax increase is probably guaranteed.

    But not a BBA.
     
  19. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with some of that. I am fully aware that a large proportion of the population (I think it's 47% without checking) account for something like 3% of the government's total income from income taxes. I also believe everyone should have some skin in the game. I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of a consumption tax on non-essential items to close the income-to-expenditures gap in the federal budget.

    Where I disagree is in the meaning of the 14A which I believe was intended to guarantee equal freedom and rights to former slaves.

    I said earlier that I define "conservatism" by my own definition, and so I do believe it is moral and just that those of us with the most, pay the most as a percentage, and I will try to explain why. I don't think that a flat tax is moral or fair, whether it is levied by income or consumption. For example, if your household brings in $1 million, and you pay 20% of that to the government, your household is left with $800k of spendable income. On the other hand, if your household only grosses $60k, and you pay 20% of that to the government, your household is left with $48k of spendable income. The amount of harm done to the $1 million household by paying $200k is far, far less than the amount of harm done to the $60k household that has to pay $12k. This disparity in the "amount of harm" is what I cannot justify in my mind when I think of a flat tax system.

    My household is in an upper income level. We are financially secure. We have all that we realistically desire or need. My wife and I have earned it the old fashioned way ... We earned it through hard work and sacrifice. When I think of poor people, I feel no guilt whatsoever at our own success. But that is in part because I know that we have paid our fair share in a system that does not deliberately and disproportionately harm the poor. Rather than this arrangement being a source of resentment, it is actually a source of satisfaction in what we have done with our lives and our wealth. We have enjoyed the fruits of our labor, and we know that we have contributed to the greater good of our people. We have protected the most vulnerable among us - children, the disabled, the elderly. By my definition, this is "conservative". But it is also the reason why I find myself at odds with what I'll call "Republicanism" which I believe is focused more on selfishness than generosity and compassion. And so, I remain an Independent, and yet, conservative.

    Seth
     
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Your claim of SS and Medicare being the big drivers is bullshit. They have both been paid for by workers paying taxes. The actual problem is tax cuts for the rich. Look here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019

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