Humans Will Never Colonize Mars

Discussion in 'Science' started by Lil Mike, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I basically agree with the conclusions of this article...

    Humans Will Never Colonize Mars

    ...and the biggest reason is this...

    And that’s assuming humans could even reproduce on Mars, which is an open question. Casting aside the deleterious effects of radiation on the developing fetus, there’s the issue of conception to consider in the context of living in a minimal gravity environment. We don’t know how sperm and egg will act on Mars, or how the first critical stages of conception will occur. And most of all, we don’t know how low gravity will affect the mother and fetus.

    Seidler, an expert in human physiology and kinesiology, said the issue of human gestation on Mars is a troublesome unknown. The developing fetus, she said, is likely to sit higher up in the womb owing to the lower gravity, which will press upon the mother’s diaphragm, making it hard for the mother to breathe. The low gravity may also “confuse” the gestational process, delaying or interfering with critical phases of the fetus’ development, such as the fetus dropping by week 39. On Earth, bones, muscles, the circulatory system, and other aspects of human physiology develop by working against gravity. It’s possible that the human body might adapt to the low-gravity situation on Mars, but we simply don’t know.


    If we can't colonize Antarctica, we sure can't do it off world.
     
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  2. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    "Never" is a long time. But I agree that "colonization" as defined in the article -- hundreds of thousands of people living in towns -- won't happen anytime soon.

    Most of the objections are "it would be doable, but hard", coupled with a few "we don't knows". Nothing in the article really says "we can't".

    And as far as Antarctica, there's no reason we can't colonize it. There's just no particular reason to do so.

    Which is really what the question comes down to on Mars. Is there a good reason to colonize it in the short term? No. We'll put some bases there, and then see what happens over time.

    But we might find that other places actually provide a more hospitable environment. Or that it's easier to colonize the moon, simply because it's so close so it doesn't have to be completely self-sustaining. No reason to bloody-mindedly aim at Mars just because.

    If and when we get serious about colonizing and terraforming, I would think we could take a look at Venus. Nearly the same size and density as Earth, and the problem is too much atmosphere, not too little. As planet-scale engineering goes, I'd think it would be easier to remove gas from Venus than add it to Mars. I have no idea what the surface temperature would be like once the atmosphere was thinned, but presumably it would be significantly less -- perhaps low enough to live on without heroic measures.
     
  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Artificial wombs and insemination. In a worst case, the artificial wombs can be in a 1G centrifuge.

    Next problem?

    Reproduction on Mars: Mix an egg with a sperm and stir for 9 months. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  4. Robert Urbanek

    Robert Urbanek Active Member

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    Eleven children have been born in Antarctica, so colonizing the icy continent is feasible.
    Source: aqamb.com/declaration.html
     
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  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only 3 options.

    Increase the mass about 2.5 times it's current mass, which would be practically impossible.

    Decrease it's radius, again practically impossible.

    Artificial gravity is the only possible short term solution.
     
  6. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    My first priority would be how one human could support himself on Mars. Reproduction would be low on my list. We have a strong reproductive drive , I think we could figure it out. But basic human survival? Air to breathe....water to drink .... temperate ... Seems seeds may have a place....heirlooms. Need light.... protection from elements...growth medium... Let's face it ....we need a large supply of water. And a steady source of light.... protection from radiation. Let's get one person supplied with the where with all to survive first.
     
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  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Completely impossible.

    And a centrifuge is the only source of continuous artificial gravity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Terraforming Mars to make it more compatible with life first, makes much more sense.

    But then terraforming Earth to make it more compatible with life will be needed first.
     
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  9. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    The environment is so hostile to life on Mars that it would take many trillions of dollars just to get the equipment and supplies there for 500 people to survive short term. Then if there's a major, maybe even a minor system failure, they're all dead.
     
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  10. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Or....the old fashioned idea of living in some form of a dome and terraforming a small space at a time. I have seen pictures of plants in a bottle that never needs water or fertilizer. May even be able to use ice for the dome.
     
  11. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    That is essentially the plan, but perhaps in caves to provide shielding from radiation. But as it has been noted, systems like that are highly vulnerable because some system failures can mean certain death.

    Also as noted, it would take $trillions and $trillions to sustain a small population.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  12. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    It may make sense to generate a new atmosphere. The original was swept away by solar flux when the magnetic field of the planet died about 4 billion years ago. But I imagine it would take much longer to lose the atmosphere than it would take to generate one again.
     
  13. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    How much shielding is needed?
     
  14. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    You are talking about thousands if not millions of years. But the very best way to colonize would be to find something on Mars worth going after. Like trees during the American colonies.
     
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  15. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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  16. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Which part? An atmosphere could be generated in a couple of centuries.

    We're proving that here on earth right now.

    I'm not seeing any particular valuable materials on Mars, as opposed to asteroids known to have an abundance of valuable metals. But even if there is, that can be mined and shipped robotically.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/09/26/is-there-a-fortune-to-be-made-on-mars/#776b25866e28
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  17. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    A few centuries....way too long. I don't people have the will to wait. And a society would need evidence that this artificial atmosphere would stay on Mars and not be lost to space. Not to mention something that would survive in a Martian environment. In a dome everything is contained.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  18. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    People have lived on Antartica for a hundred years..
     
  19. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    The temperature isn't the problem.
     
  20. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Who's gonna pay for it? I'm sure as hell not.

    Just a trip to Mars will cost every American [not just taxpayers] a minimum of $3000 up to perhaps $7000.

    Sustaining a population there would cost much much more.

    We can send a robot for about $3 per American.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  21. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Gravity on Mars is 3/8 that of Earth. A whole lot of oxygen will have to be manufactured and pumped to get a breathable density, a density that will not bring elevation sickness at ground level.
     
  22. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the energy burden can all be supplied locally. Solar powered electrolyzers and Martian water. With the price of solar still dropping with ever more power per square foot, it might be economically feasible, as opposed to a self-contained colony of any size.

    Then you still have hydrogen....
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  23. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    One problem is cost plus work. An expense of government work. And we will go there regardless....Man will go to Mars. Why advance space travel if man has to stay home? Maybe the Chinese will come up with the money.
     
  24. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Donor

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    Humans WILL live on Mars eventually, as well as the moon and asteroids. Perhaps in time we may even colonize but chances are that by then the Physical limitations of our species will be overcome with genetic manipulation and technology. I however foresee the bulk of future habitation being on space stations due to the simple realities of extrasolar space. We will create our own gravity and environment to eliminate most problems and move it wherever we need to.....the shape of a craft makes little difference in space.
     
  25. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    This magical insight brought to you by the psychic zone.

    Did you see that in your crystal ball? Did your perfect wife tell you?
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019

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