If doctors could prescribe HCQ, 'we wouldn't need the lockdowns'

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by undertheradar, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Happily

    it’s a you tube! Less honest And accurate than a third world used car salesman in a recession!

    now let’s look at OAN’s reputation

    upload_2020-10-16_16-24-32.png

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-america-news-network/

    Now IF this doctor has had that much success with HCQ then surely he would want to share that success with other doctors and publish his findings? That way he can be properly scrutinised for his methodology, like you know, making sure that the people he is giving the HCQ to actually HAVE the virus, that he is undertaking an RCT, or that his source for the HCQ is legitimate (go to this Nigerian website and order your pills) or even that his patients are not infected with “Demon Sperm”

    upload_2020-10-16_16-30-48.jpeg
     
  2. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    No I'm saying he's wrong, as in absolutely and complete wrong!

    To repeat a post an earlier post of mine;

    From the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners - An Article Titled: 'Do not use use HLC for COVID' (but hey what do they know? Their just Doctors!)

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/do-not-use-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-national-t

    In summery, 'The pooled results show the drug does not reduce mortality, or shorten the amount of time a sick person spends in hospital. It also exposes them to side effects including cardiac toxicity.’

    Is that clear enough for you.

    The Doctor in question could have given his patient/s lemon juice enemas and still seen them recover from Covid. That doesn't mean his 'treatment' was responsible. It just means they recovered - just like 99% plus of people who contract the virus. What matters is what the pooled results from thousands of strictly controlled trails prove. And in this case those results say 'HLC simply doesn't work.'

    Which is not to say the Doctor in question is not deliberately lying. (He could be mind you, but if so that's for someone else to allege). What it does mean however is that he's drawn the completely wrong conclusions from a completely inadequate sample size.

    Go away and find me controlled trials proving otherwise and you have a point, otherwise no.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  3. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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    What, you expect CNN/BBC to interview him?

    Free your mind. Stop thinking that anything not reported by the MSM must be false.

    Maybe he already has but the MSM has typically ignored it.

    And I notice you've still not addressed what I said earlier about the lancet.

    A reminder:

    https://ahrp.org/lancet-editor-spil...ns-pm-surrenders-to-the-gates-vaccine-cartel/
     
  4. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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    Looks like you haven't heard about what's happened in Switzerland:

    [​IMG]

    The graph charting high Covid-19 deaths in Switzerland during the 13 day ban, following the fraudulent Lancet report proves that the drug had reduced the rate of deaths; that rate increased when the drug was withheld. The Swiss death rate from Covid-19 dropped as soon as patients were again treated with HCQ.

    "The CFR returned to the highest level it had been since early in the pandemic at over 15%. Upon resumption of treatment with hydroxychloroquine, it returned to below 5%. A statistical analysis of the data:

    A statistically significant difference

    For those who are not convinced of the observational result, we conducted a statistical difference test by comparing the three periods: May 28th – June 8th, June 9th – 22nd, June 23rd – July 6th . The period from June 9th till the 22nd is that in which the index increased some 13 days after the suspension of hydroxychloroquine. There is of course an effect of delay between stopping the prescription of the drug and possible deaths, which explains the delay of 13 days.

    We therefore observe that for the period from the 28th of May till the 8th of June, the index is 2.39% and then drops to 11.52% or 4.8 times more and then drops to 3%.

    When testing for statistical significance between the various observations, the difference is significant at 99% with a p <0.0001. 13 days after the HCQ prescription was resumed, the index dropped to 3% and this was again a significant effect.


    For those who have forgotten statistics, a p-value of 0.05 or less indicates statistical significance. If the graph is not convincing, a confidence interval of 99% in a statistical analysis based on full population data should be.

    Between this information and a study published by researchers in India, it is time for the media to do a mea culpa. Their hysteria convinced politicians in the United States to ban or restrict the drug. As Dr. David Samadi said on The Larry O’Connor Show, the decision to use this treatment needs to be left between a doctor and a patient. He has been disturbed by the interference by the government into the doctor-patient relationship.

    Dr. Samadi re-emphasized the use of hydroxychloroquine cocktail is effective in early COVID-19 according to clinical experience and multiple studies. The FDA and NIH need to tell governors and other officials who have banned its use to lift their bans ASAP and tell pharmacists to stop questioning doctors who prescribe it."

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...ervation-about-hydroxychloroquine-use-n643181
     
  5. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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    Which is, in case you missed it:

    The Lancet retracted an influential paper published in May that claimed to analyze data from nearly 96,000 coronavirus patients in six continents. The study found those who took hydroxychloroquine showed increased heart rhythm problems and had a higher mortality rate than those who didn't take it.

    The New England Journal of Medicine then retracted a study from the same authors, also published in May, that said it analyzed 8,910 COVID-19 patients. That study suggested that widely-used blood pressure medicines did not raise the risk of death for COVID-19 patients.

    The Lancet study influenced governments in several nations to ban the use of hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus, and also led to the suspension of some clinical trials of the drug's use, including tests overseen by the World Health Organization.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-lancet-retracts-hydroxychloroquine-studies-covid-19/

    The Lancet study gained attention claiming to have detailed data on more than 96,000 COVID-19 patients, harvested from electronic medical records from hospitals on six continents. And analysis of that data was startling: patients who had received either chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine had up to a 45 percent increased risk of dying and up to 411 percent increased risk of serious heart-rhythm problems (known complications of the drugs).

    The findings caused regulatory agencies to change their guidance on the use of the drugs and prompted the World Health Organization to pause the use of hydroxychloroquine in its global Solidarity Trial...

    In the meantime, the WHO announced Wednesday that it had resumed its trial of hydroxychloroquine after it reviewed the data and found no problems.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/202...quine-study-retracted-shady-data-still-shady/
     
  6. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Your sure you really want to go with news report dated 4 June 2020 quoting the Lancet ? Well OK then, if that what you want that's what you get!

    From the Lancet itself (Volume 20, Issue 10, dated 1 October 2020) ...... (notice the difference in dates?)

    'However, randomised controlled trials (RCTs) in hospitalised patients have shown no effect of hydroxychloroquine in reducing mortality. One RCT hinted at an effect when used as post-exposure prophylaxis, but this was not statistically significant. Unless new, high-quality evidence emerges, the aminoquinolines appear to have no future in the management of COVID-19.'

    You need to keep up. Britain, Australia, Europe, and America. In all these locations the latest advice from medical authorities is the same. They do not recommend HCL for the treatment of COVID, full stop. The the results in Switzerland in April having been fully discounted because they haven't been repeated, anywhere. In fact as of August 2020 even the Swiss aren't using it!

    From an article in the 'The Local' (Swiss English Language news publication dated 14 August 2020) Again notice the date.;

    'hydroxychloroquine had been used at the beginning of the pandemic but was mostly discontinued in Switzerland due to serious side effects like renal and liver damage.'

    And one more time. A point you've consistently refused to acknowledge - after catching the virus the President of the United States, holder of arguably the most important position on the planet, was treated by the best medical experts available with the best treatments available - and did not receive HCL. What does that tell you?

    So will you please give up this pointless fixation with HCL. You are simply just wrong.
     
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  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello Bowerbird. My neighbour is an Australian. Part of her job in Australia used to be making sure people took HLC for Malaria (I think it was for that), when they went abroad. She said she never heard of anyone having problems. Never once heart problems. Up until Covid 19, I am pretty sure there was no warning about heart problems on the medicine's bumph. The dose is important though.
     
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    That is because the does for malaria is once a week!
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are you bringing Trump into this? I never mentioned Trump and further I had heard about the effectiveness of HLC and that it was being used effectively in Asia long before Trump heard of a French Doctor having similarly effective results. To you it would appear that it is all about Trump which reflects the infantile behaviour of Western Society at the moment to put their love or hatred of political leaders above good science. There have been so many warped trials concerning HLC that one could be forgiven for believing there was something else going on without being a Trump supporter. Why does it work effectively in China and other Asian countries but not in the West. That is the big question not just coming along with personal attacks about Trump.

    Hydroxychloroquine is Effective and Safe for the Treatment of COVID-19, and May be Universally Effective When Used Early Before Hospitalization: A Systematic Review

    You didn't even deal with what I said in my post due to your desire to regurgitate your record in the hope of belittling any one who does not have the same opinion on you. Now please prove to me that my neighbour who worked in Australia making sure people were taking their HLC never heard of anyone having problems, in partricular heart problems when taking it is wrong because that was what my post was about and that was all my post was about..
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  10. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Lets see 'Post 9 this thread 'I just don't get why there was this response to Trump.' Sooo... it seem you did mention Trump after all. And what I said (in summary) was that he was not wrong about everything, although he was about most things.

    For the rest? Read my last post above. And either come up with a more recent medical report from recognized bodies singing the praises of HCL as a treatment for COVID (it does still have its uses for other specific conditions) or give up this ridiculous fixation. One or the other. Your choice.
     
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  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My point was you stated people would have heart damage., This medication has been used for decades without causing heart problems but I get the second part of what you are saying which also goes with what I have said about the dose being appropriate - as well as giving it at the appropriate time. Obviously giving in the right dose at the right time and being aware of other problems is important - for instance giving to people already having heart problems which was the position for many people if not most who were given it when they were getting near ventilator treatment or on it, might have something to do with them apparently dying of heart problems;). That was when it was initially given and I think the first 'trials' - the belief that these people were likely to die anyway so give them another chance....but it was only successful when given early. The earlier the better.

    Here is a brief synopsis of the link I gave above

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297520301281

    Media Bias has science direct's factual reporting as being very high
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sciencedirect/
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes I can see I mentioned Trump a month ago. I did not even know I had answered this thread. It still was not in the post you were respondiong to. I am putting you on ignore for being a pain in the arse.
     
  13. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that. But undertheradar mentioned Trump as well. I was responding to his comments in particular. Sorry also you are putting me on 'ignore'. Firstly because personally I make a point of never doing so - everyone always has something useful to contribute. And secondly it tends to make the person doing so look weak, as if they lack the strength of their own convictions and/or can't stand being contradicted. Perhaps this is not so in your case, but then we'll never know.

    So the question remains .Are you weak? And yes, you might not see this but other here contributors will - and may reach that conclusion about you.

    Signed; 'the pain in the arse.'
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Please I NEVER said “it does damage”

    [

    You source of information is someone who knows something they may or may not have learnt somewhere

    a) I have NOT been claiming that it “damages the heart” What it does is prolong the QT interval. That is the point between the impulse in the heart firing off and and the heart relaxing for the next impulse. Google Hydroxychloroquine and QT interval and you will find it listed as a known and concerning side effect because a prolonged QT will put the patient into a life threatening heart rhythm

    b) dosage is important and I have yet to see any research paper that has determined the

    When looking at research journals you have to look at a thing called the “impact factor”. Since the site itself is simply a repository for journal articles

    The impact factor for “New Microbes and New Infections“ is 1.600.

    By contrast the impact factor for the journal “Nature” is 42.778

    So, NOT well regarded in the field
    , in fact with that impact factor you might well have been the only person to quote an article from that journal this year

    and it is no wonder

    The “systematic review” is the sloppiest piece of academic writing I have seen in years. Has no review of the included studies to test for academic rigor within the studies No inclusion or exclusion criteria and interestingly the link you have given does not even list the included studies that they based their conclusions on

    Compare it to this paper
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.25898
    or even this paper
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40264-018-0689-4

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0883944120306134
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  15. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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  16. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    I think you must have a problem with dates. That or the concepts of 'before' and 'after'. The article you just linked to was first published on 1 July 2020 and was based on treatment data collected between March & May that year i.e. right at the start of the outbreak in the US.

    The links I posted previously which comprehensively rebutted the use of HCL for treating Corona Virus were dated October & mid August 2020.

    So (one more time) unless you can produce research from recognized experts, published in legitimate medical journals, based on research conducted after the dates I quoted you are still wrong. I cant make it any clearer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
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  17. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    $


    They do it all the time such as studies for
    pharmaceutical companies.
    In the '70's I worked at two V.A. locations
    and witnessed fraudulent studies.
    Career & reputation and wallets enhanced. What down side?


    Moi, M.D. ret.
    :oldman:
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Okaaay

    1) first clue - the journal - very low “impact factor” and has a notoriety as it was the journal that published that piece of twaddle by Gautret that kicked off this controversy
    2) NOT repeat NOT and RCT
    3) NOt a systematic review of literature either
    4) Patients were also given Steroids, which we know does work, and it was the sicker patients who were more likely to get them

    Want me to go on?
     
  19. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    And finally, from an article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association based on clinical trials conducted between April and June 2020 titled ' Hydroxychloroquine does not help patients hospitalized with COVID -19'

    '(HCL) does not improve clinical outcomes outcomes in hospitalized CPVID-19 patients'

    So can we please put this rubbish to bed now?

    Link below.
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-11-hydroxychloroquine-patients-hospitalized-covid-.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020

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